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Beating an Undead Horse: Imagining the New Left Imagining
Sadly, I came to the SDS party too late to provide much of a reasonable comment; the moment to do so, the moment in which a comment might have been effective, might have offered something productive, had passed. This is, in some ways, what the entire argument revolves around, the notion of a history that is at once both concrete and unbound, both nuanced and simplistic. If Scott had not believed that the moment for theatre and symbolic politics had passed, perhaps that the moment should never have existed in the first place, I doubt he would have written his initial post. Had not many at LS been cheered by the SDS being reconstituted, born anew, and that this rebirth marked a time that had come, perhaps there would be no need for Charles' rejoinder. Let's think of this as the first impasse, or the first tension.
The second is equally obvious, but nevertheless deserves additional investment. Scott embraces a form of leftist politics that is - I don't know what he wants to call it, but for the sake of convenience - pragmatic. He wants a politics of the left that, like those of the far right, transformed the political organization of the left (which I assume he means the Democrats?). The SDS strikes him, and others, as a symbolic politics, at times "purely symbolic," at other times merely "symbolic." Either way, these sorts of New Left theatre, these playful interventions that are tantamount to pragmatic concessions within the political arena, are to be disdained. Others feel differently. At stake is what might be understood as the substance or essence of the symbolic (Jon has taken it in this direction). That's one way to look at it, though I want to propose that this tension, though it owes much to Scott's imprecise (and indeed, malformed) deployment of the term, makes less sense within the register of the symbolic and more within the register of the imaginary.
A long post follows.
Let's go in order. The first faultline is that of time, specifically that of history. Let us assume, as I think it's safe to assume, that what we have here are variations in the validity of historical causality. Scott has, on a couple of occasions, made the following three prong claim: that there exists "a substantial link between the 1) demise of real leftist politics in the US, 2) the rise of actual far right conservatism and 3) the reason why the left shouldn't repeat the mistakes that led to #1." This is, of course, rubbish. For a guy who spends a lot of time maligning folks for their simplistic understanding of history, there seems to be an astounding ignorance of the whole confounding factor problem that makes historiography so difficult. The decline and fall of the Soviet Union, to name but one of the many components that served as balast and balances on this particular chain of events, hurt the politics of the American left far more than it hurt the right, since, as Rushkoff and others have noted, it removed the specter of a far left from the public imaginary, leaving the far right alone and tipping the scales in the other direction. Rather than a happy compromise between far right and far left, a compromise that seemed both centrist/moderate and distinctly american, there was no longer an effective counterbalance to far right ideology, and so the "middle" shifted inexorably right. Yes? No? Who cares.
My point is rather that far more substantial historical events can explain the rise of the far right by way of understanding that, thanks to the larger historical influences, the far left never had a chance. Want another example? How about the argument, made by several, that television uniquely privileges political simplifications, and that conservative ideology is, by and large, a more simplified system of political warrants? Explaining that the poor lack moral character or that you earned it so it's your money or that the government is inefficient because it costs more than a business might spend to do the same thing is significantly easier and significantly more adaptable to the rhythmic dictates of televisual news than are explanations of the correspondence between historical productions of poverty and their continuation, not to mention the social stigma that gets attached to those out-groups who often represent the lower economic spectrum (the irish, then blacks, then hispanics, and so on), or that the value of "your" money comes from a confluence of legal enforcement and fraud regulations funded and enforced by people you don't know and will never meet who make possible your ability to earn, and that the value of a dollar is determined not by you but by a complex web of financial interactions and currency exchange, as well as speculative expectations regarding future purchasing power, or finally, that businesses are more efficient because they externalize costs, and that typically these externalizations are funded by tax dollars, and therefore, none of the above conservative assertions make much sense. Difficult, not impossible, but pretty damn difficult to do well. So perhaps the rise of and eventual dominance of televisual news formats can be blamed for the failure of the left, independently of any of the failures of the New Left's intended goals.
Now those are interesting historical games, of course. And I enjoy them as much as the next non-historian. But we shouldn't pretend that, for the sake of the argument, that we can simply spin a simple narrative and assume that such a narrative supports our contention. This is true when we're asserting whether or not protests actually impacted the prosecution of the Vietnam War. And it's equally true when one asserts that the left "monopolized populist discourse for the latter half of the nineteenth and first half of the twentieth centuries," which is a claim so preposterous it makes one wonder about the quality of the Kool-Aid. (For those of you drinking said Kool-Aid, let me merely cite: the American eugenics movement, the KKK, nazi sympathizers in the United States, the various anti-immigrations laws passed, the delays at getting any anti-monopolizations laws in place, etc. - or I could recommend that one go out and read any of the histories of the American progressive movement, say McGerr's Fierce Discontent. I might also recommend that one actually read about the rise of modern conservatism from folks who spend their time actually researching it, works like Diamond's Road to Dominion, or read about the role that mediation plays in shaping content, like The Press Effect, which is a fast and easy primer).
Now I don't really want us to go out and be historians. I find that historians are much better at actually doing that, and while I like reading, I also like to stick with what I'm particularly good at. Which isn't vague historical assertion, oh no. I am, as my presence on the LS contributors might indicate, or as my odd, infrequent chastisement over at a certain literary organ intimates , interested in theorizing and rhetoric. I'm interested in thinking about how it is that the terms we use and the precepts we embrace shape our ability to understand ourselves, the world, and the interface between the two. And here in this first tension we have a wonderful example of the sort of thing that fascinates me - an entire system of assumptions about the workings of time and historical passage and a certain sense of political nowness and it's placment within pragmatic political work. Whatever one might think of my playful remarks about historical blindness and confounding factors, or whatever validity there might be to the narratives I fancifully trotted out above, let's face it, if we don't come to grips with what in the world we think of as historical time, there will never be a way out of this impasse.
So let me begin with an invitation. Scott, as the flag bearer and champion of the con position under discussion, give it to us. How does history work for you? What are the contours of historical time? I'll preemptively offer mine. Time, historical time is, as Derrida notes, out of joint. It is disconnected, its narratives the product of our own retrospective imaginations and not an inexorable flow from event unto event. What we see as continuity is in fact a potlatch of - Benjamin's word here - catastrophes, fleeting images that pass us by and that we far too often attempt routinize and contain through the imposition of historical continuity. Given this belief, I am entirely unconcerned that movement "whatever" fails to achieve its intended goals. The New Left wanted to revolutionize politics, and I suppose that didn't happen, at least not how they wanted it. But I could give a fried rat's ass about their goals' historical manifestation. I care about the articulation of those goals, about what the moment of their invention and the nature of their pursuit tells us about the possibilities for invention, for the promulgation of the (we'll get there in a bit) political imaginary. Is there another, reasonable way to interpret history? Is National Socialism to be dismissed as an historical failure because it was eventually defeated? An abhorrent political philosophy yes, but what does one gain by highlighting its failure as if such a thing would be, in and of itself, evidence of the poverty of its program? Can one not recognize its enormous productivity, the force it had on history and that its program continues to exert on history? By any sufficiently retrospective measure, every movement fails (or else we would never return to the notion of a movement, which already presupposes a to and a from, a here and a there, an achievement and a failure). The relationship between the passage of time and the establishment of stated goals tells us jack-taco about the operational success or failure of a movement. Or at least it pretends to do so at a cost: the impoverishment of alternative historical metrics, and a particularly poor appreciation for the role that language/discourse/rhetoric play in the formation of social and political identity.
That's my gloss on historical time. I'm open. I could be wrong about it. I could be missing something. Perhaps you even agree with me, but see your arguments predicated on a different, more nuanced reading? I don't know. But at least I feel like time is the first topic around which we should be orienting the discussion. Or perhaps you know better? Perhaps it is better for us to think through allegories predicated on the toys of yesteryear, I don't know. Of course, I'm writing as a contributor for a place constantly awaiting monday, a plac thus constantly focused on time's precarious insufferance, and perhaps I just don't get the literary part of those from a more literary organ, and the allure of the allegory thus escapes me.
Though I doubt it.
The second tension is born of a far too casual distrust/use of the symbolic. Symbolic politics! As if there is, ever strictly speaking, some other type. Let's return to the National Socialists, one of the most ruthlessly pragmatic political organizations in modern history, a group that also knew that politics through and through were entirely symbolic. Kenneth Burke's discussion of Mein Kampf, Frederic Spott's fascinating look at Hitler's obsession with aesthetics, and so on - if one needs "historical" evidence/discussion to this effect. Are we to say that the early days of the Nazi party, before they figured out the sort of strategies needed to get them into power (agrarian populism worked, urban populism didn't), weren't fundamentally important, weren't indeed constitutive of the rhetorical force with which they eventually achieved dominance? Would we say that the rise of the modern right in America is thinkable in the absence of the billions of dollars pumped into thinktanks designed to spread the word about the inherent rightness/soundness of conservative ideology, and do so even without specific policy recommendations?
I read Acephalous quite a bit, as your referrer logs will no doubt show, and I stop by the Valve to see what's going on there with John and Rich and the gang. And I tend to think that what we have here are lots of smart people with differences of opinion, and as you are one of those very smart people, I find it almost unfathomable that you would even type the phrase "purely symbolic" as if such a state might be possible. As if such a purity might be possible. You've backed off the use of purely as a modal qualifier a bit in subsequent comments on the subject, and indeed, it seems as if the tenor and nature of the discussion has shifted into disagreements no longer about the efficacy of the New Left, but I think that this question of efficacy is important. And I think that it is a question that can only be resolved if we interrogate what it is we might mean by the symbolic in relation to politics, since I think we all know (following Murray Edelman, if we might site just one prominent scholar of political communication), that there can be no politics in the absence of the spectacular, the absence of the symbolic. So a few hypotheses.
- Symbolic means "empty or insubstantial." I think that charitably, this is what you were trying to imply. What good is theatre when the theatre is explicitly tied to not participating in the political institutions by which substantive policy is done? I can sympathize with this concern - to an extent. After all, as someone who thinks that Foucault's quasi-ethical care of the self follows perhaps all too easily from his earlier emphasis on micropolitical resistance, and as someone who agrees very heavily with Derrida, Laclau and Mouffe, and who has, in the past, run websites entirely devoted to progressive politics, I am entirely open to the possibility that perhaps these expansions or retreatings of the political are in fact retreats in the more obvious sense of the term. But I also know - and here I think we learn much from Agamben and Nancy - that the human is not purely a political animal, that there must be a way of thinking politics that does not make of every activity a demand for political imbrication with the law or state. This is the space typically thought under the rubric of ethics or morality, and it's important, not because it opposes the state per se, but rather because it opposes the requirement that one think only from the confines of the state. From the perspective of substance, then, I find myself recoiling, almost violently, from any notion that would define symbolic substance by its relation to the state, and that would eschew as insubstantial or empty or even non-political any work that attempted to play with the thinking of the state itself. The discussions of the politics of power, which are highlighted in comments by Charles and Angela, is an explicit rejoinder to this idea of symbolic as insubstantial, since the belief in the symbolic's productive/pragmatic emptiness is functionally a concession that the structure of power is not up for political consideration. I addressed this one to a "you" that is Scott, but I think I can end that practice now.
- Symbolic means ambivalence. Let's for a second agree with Baudrillard about the fundamental insolvency of the symbolic, its ability to disrupt systems of signification by asserting a system of valences that cannot be resolved through recourse to a signified. I am no longer addressing Scott here, as I think that there's no way one can see this reading of the symbolic in what he writes, but I think it's worth some consideration in that it offers something like a reversal of the operation. It is as if we might say the the value of the New Left, of SDS, might be that it is indeed purely symbolic, a disruption to political signification. These sorts of disruptions have historical precursors, and often particularly good outcomes, since they leave the government, which remains democratic in myth if not in function still yearning for some level of popular interest. So, the argument goes, it's actually quite productive that many remain politically apathetic, because political engagement in a systemt hat entertains the structural possibility of only two major political options is a game of mutual exhaustion, where affirmation fights negation to a relative standstill and the government is generally more restrained than it could be if it could demonstrate that everyone cared one way or the other. Here, the argument goes, it's not whether you're left or right but whether or not you're engaged in the struggle at all, a struggle that will exhaust both sides (with minor wins here and there, largely based on a pendulum theory of political socialization). So the symbolic as ambivalence isn't just one strategy by which those opposed to government power might operate, it is the fundamental predicate by which governmentality is restrained.
- Symbolic as supplement. The problem with the previous two options is that both of them rest on an ontological precept that seems to me unsupportable: namely, that investment exhausts an individual's finite energy. That there is, to put it another way, a scarcity of political agency, and that one must use their energies in a way that maximizes their potential or that at least avoids their exhaustion. When Socrates explains that an individual can be expert in only one thing, just as an ant can only accomplish one task, well I think we all let out the same guffaw at the stupidity of the claim and the insipid nature of the analogy. Clearly we have the capacity to do both, or else one could not, in the midst of all the other fictions and theories and movies and sports, engage with the political, and this discussion would never happen. So perhaps it behooves us to think of the symbolic as the supplement in a Derridean sense, a supplement that is indeed constitutive of the thing it purports to be extraneous to. Trying to separate the political from the symbolic then would be a fool's errand, likely with very dangerous consequences (and I suspect this is true if the separation attempted is either "material" or "theoretical", precisely because of the relation of the two). Using different terminology, Derrida says as much in Politics of Friendship:
Of course, if the sybolic is (a poor word choice, but whatever:) "merely" supplemental, then there's almost no reason for the debate, and those lauding SDS and those maligning SDS are equally wrong, or at least equally caught up in something that is inexorable, and so hardly worth contesting. Unless of course the debate is over the valences assigned to and not the practices of the New Left. Which is, I suppose, once you eliminate all the other random issues involve, perhaps what this debate is about. Indirectly.Now what would a 'history', a science, or a historical action purporting to be resolutely and ingeniously extradiscursive or extratextual actually do? What would a political history or philosophy, at least realistic, in truth do, if they did not assume all the disquieting conversions... What else could they do without attempting to read all the apparently contradictory impossibles that these 'sophisticated discourses' impose on our memory? Let us answer: they could do little, almost nothing. They would miss the hardest, the most resistant, the most irreducible, the othermost of the 'thing itself.' Such a political history of philosophy would deck itself out in 'realism' just in time to fall short of the thing - and to repeat, repeat and repeat again, with neither consciousness nor memory of its compulsive droning.
But what's been going on here isn't then a debate over the nature of the symbolic; this is a debate over the imaginary. Charles Taylor, certainly not beholden to any psychoanalytic conception of the term, nevertheless describes the imaginary in ways resonant with (though not identical to) Lacan. Taylor's "social imaginary" is "the ways people imagine their social existence, how they fit together with others, how things go on between them and their fellows, the expectations that are normally met, and the deeper normative notions and images that underlie these expectations." As with the social, so homologously with the political: a specular association of words and associations, of ideographs and of envisioned political reality. It seems to me that recent snapshots of the Left suffer from a lack of just this sort of speculative imagination, and that the Right has it in spades. This is an imaginary that I think can only be benefited by the revival of SDS and similar political theatre, in that it sparks the possibility of something other than politics as is, and because I think that the alternative, which privileges political operation over demarcations scene and productions of motivation. To win implies the winning of something, and the left appears to have very little on the speculative horizon. If a New Left implies an even remote chance of building something that might dot that distant political skyline, or they can just play with looking at different altitudes, it seems to me to be something to be welcomed. Perhaps cautiously, perhaps eagerly. As something to come, that must come, for the Left to even know when it is that its pragmatic political operations have achieved something like a victory. The New Left then is neither a withdrawal nor a revolution, it is the political in a very strict sense, and it is pragmatism - the concept of a pure pragmatism - that marks the scene of an escape, of a concession, and a retreat.
By kenrufo | February 3, 2006 in Politics | Permalink
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Comments
I normally don't comment on LS, but this time, maybe. (Perhaps because I'm currently reading "Specters of Marx", and I'm immediately finding the mourning and vengeance themes and assertion of timelessness ("It will always be a fault not to read and reread and discuss Marx" -- pg. 13) tiresome.) I have no interest in criticizing the SDS old or new. I'm more interested in how the left (however defined) ties itself into knots over these questions of history.
So, if I do comment, do I have to consider Scott to be "flag bearer and champion of the con position under discussion"? My opinions have little to do with Scott's. I bring this up because of the well-known history here and the frankly rather odd "John and Rich and the gang" phrase.
So a few initial comments on the symbolic, following your numbering:
1. "What good is theatre when the theatre is explicitly tied to not participating in the political institutions by which substantive policy is done?" You implicitly equate this to involvement with the state later, which I think is a mistake. Political change does not always happen through the state, and the criticisms of theatre unbacked by the force of money or organization still apply to theatre in any context.
2. "So, the argument goes, it's actually quite productive that many remain politically apathetic, because political engagement in a system that entertains the structural possibility of only two major political options is a game of mutual exhaustion" [...]. Wouldn't an old-style Marxist suggest that this is a luxury of those who can sustain this apathy by virtue of their class position? I wouldn't go that far, but really, apathy is not a viable choice for some people.
3. "an ontological precept that seems to me unsupportable: namely, that investment exhausts an individual's finite energy". You have infinite energy? Please tell me how you do it. I suggest that infinitude can only be attained in the domain of the symbolic, and that when it comes to time to actually do anything, it is necessarily limited. But politics must always eventually turn into actual changes in concrete effects of power relationships at some point, right?
And one last bit about the "symbolic horizon". Any kind of nostalgia is, in my opinion, incompatible with a leftist speculative horizon. By all means revive the SDS name and practice if that seems like a good way to pursue goals. But do it because you are "cheered" that something has been "reborn anew"? That's not, in my opinion, the left.
Posted by: Rich Puchalsky | Feb 3, 2006 1:57:45 PM
Kenneth, first, let me thank you for the considered response. Now, on to the show:
My use of the phrase "symbolic politics" was directly informed by contemporary discourse. To take one example, Norman Mailer's Armies of the Night:
...that historic moment when a mass of the citizenry--not much more than a mob--marched on a bastion which symbolized the military might of the Republic, marching not to capture it, but to wound it symbolically; the forces defending that bastion reacted as if a symbolic wound could prove as mortal as any other combative rent. [emphasis in the original]
More specifically, I'm talking about conflation of the New Left with "the Movement," in which, to quote a Liberation writer after the march on the Pentagon in '67:
Just two weeks ago we were talking about ... 'the psychedelic movement' ...and 'straight peace activists' ... as something quite different. Now the two are tightly communal aspects of the same thing.
In other words, at a certain point the political theater stopped supplementing procedural liberalism and became an end in itself. As Emerson noted repeatedly, the sense among the New Left was that conventional politics would have no impact on scaling back and/or ending the Vietnam War. But once the New Left adopted the anti-technocratic position of the counterculture, the critique expanded such that the very structures of power themselves became anathema. So Theodore Roszak would talk about "magic" and "shamanism" as the preeminent politics because they were opposed to the liberal rationalism. As Mailer said: "The mediocre middle-class middle-aged masses could not conceive of a revolution without hospitals, lawyers, mass meetings, and leaflets to pass out at the polls." They were "servants of that social machine of the future in which all irrational conflict would be resolved." So the hippies and yippies countered with magical thinking, with what Peter Marin celebrated as a return to "primitive man" and "tribal existence," or what C. Wright Mills called "the cultural apparatus."
By claiming the battleground to be largely cultural, Mills legitimated the idea that political change could be effect through cultural means alone. That is, cultural change was politically efficacious independent of all other forms of political participation, be it voting or coalition-building or grassroots organizing &c. I should've made this clear from the get-go, but I didn't think the claim that the New Left turned to a symbolic politics all that controversial. What I knew to be controversial, however, would be my evaluation of its efficacy (both historical and theoretical), hence the bulk of your criticism, beginning with:
Scott has, on a couple of occasions, made the following three prong claim: that there exists "a substantial link between the 1) demise of real leftist politics in the US, 2) the rise of actual far right conservatism and 3) the reason why the left shouldn't repeat the mistakes that led to #1." This is, of course, rubbish. For a guy who spends a lot of time maligning folks for their simplistic understanding of history, there seems to be an astounding ignorance of the whole confounding factor problem that makes historiography so difficult. The decline and fall of the Soviet Union, to name but one of the many components that served as balast and balances on this particular chain of events, hurt the politics of the American left far more than it hurt the right, since, as Rushkoff and others have noted, it removed the specter of a far left from the public imaginary, leaving the far right alone and tipping the scales in the other direction.
Without seeming snotty, I'm not sure how the eventual "decline and fall of the Soviet Union" has much bearing on that of the New Left and/or the efficacy of its political theater. For one, it has little to do with the anti-organizational ethos of the New Left in the face of the Vietnam War-era politics, and for another, it wouldn't happen for another twenty years. Point of fact, one of the few lessons the New Left learned from the Old was that the more distance they could put between themselves and the USSR the better. The anti-organizational ethos made the New Left as wary of state-sponsered socialism as a hijacked democracy. Now, the Soviet Union provided young idealistic conservatives a convenient rhetorical punching bag, and it did embolden those within the military-industrial complex to force their agenda on popular politics. But that shouldn't be mistaken for US politics in toto. Fighting the Cold War was a given during as far back as the '50s, yet a string of successful social-program-oriented presidents had got themselves elected. (Not that they represented the Old Left, or that the New would have been happy with them, especially in its later almost libertarian incarnations.)
So perhaps the rise of and eventual dominance of televisual news formats can be blamed for the failure of the left, independently of any of the failures of the New Left's intended goals.
This gamely discussion of televisual politics notwithstanding, it denies the work the Right put into creating a set of talking points. Joe McGinnis' The Selling of the American President discusses in horrifying detail the transformation of Richard Nixon into a viable political candidate twenty years after he'd been left for dead by means of a concerted effort on the part of Madison Avenue executives. Nixon knew he couldn't win based on the strength of his "personality" and so turned to advertising executives to make him more marketable. To say that televisual news aided the right more than the left is to deny the investment the right made into selling itself to the American people. So I feel comfortable countering this explanation by stating, as I did from the beginning, that the left could have accomplished what the right had if it had been willing to strike the same bargain Nixon and the right did. It wasn't, for a variety of reasons, and the legacy of that decision is, I would say, the illusion that the right's talking points are "naturally" superior or more easily oversimplified than the left's. If that's the case, it's only because they spent an enormous amount of time and energy in creating the conditions necessary for it to be so. And if that is the case, then there's no reason the left couldn't have done so too.
And it's equally true when one asserts that the left "monopolized populist discourse for the latter half of the nineteenth and first half of the twentieth centuries," which is a claim so preposterous it makes one wonder about the quality of the Kool-Aid.
It's a fine punch, it is, but in addition to the movements you mentioned, you neglect the Nationalists, the Suffragettes, Prohibition, the New Deal, organized labor, &c. So "monopolized" was a poor, nay, wrong choice of words, but still, the idea that populist politics belongs to the right is what I was confounding there. And to prove that it was a wrong choice of words, let me remind you that my two examples were Huey Long and Father Coughlin, fascists on the left and right respectively.
The New Left wanted to revolutionize politics, and I suppose that didn't happen, at least not how they wanted it. But I could give a fried rat's ass about their goals' historical manifestation. I care about the articulation of those goals, about what the moment of their invention and the nature of their pursuit tells us about the possibilities for invention, for the promulgation of the (we'll get there in a bit) political imaginary.
I'll address your question about how history works momentarily, but I want to point out that what I'm specifically concerned with is your fried rat's ass: I want to gauge the efficacy of particular political strategies in order to determine whether the tactics associated with the New Left's stated political goals are a viable means of attaining them. I understand that's not your primary interest, but for the record, it is mine.
Unlike most Nazi analogies, this one actually works, but it also speaks to the necessity of a pragmatic politics, of the behind-the-scenes coalition-building and destruction that I'm contending the New Left absented themselves from. The power of later Nazi propaganada aside, Hitler came to power in part because he kept one step ahead of the leaders of the extant political parties he infiltrated. He infiltrated socialist parties and fomented dissent all the while appealing to the positions they already held: the workers had been shafted, Jews were responsible, &c. Hitler didn't invent so much as manipulated the system he inherited. It wasn't until he had acquired power by building coalitions between the various socialist "clubs" and parties across Germany that he began to consolidate it by, say, tossing propagandistic leaflets into the crowd or turning political rallies into high theater. In other words, Hitler's a brilliant example of someone goosing the system on all fronts: pragmatic (or procedural) and symbolic. So I don't think it's fair to say "there's no such thing as non-symbolic politics" because, on the one hand, there's no evidence that symbolic politics works in isolation from pragmatic, and on the other because examples of pragmatic politics working without the machinations of political theater abound. Consider "machine politics." Everything takes place behind-the-scenes, with little care for what the electorate wants or needs. The only way to break the machine is to infiltrate it (think Teddy Roosevelt in NYC).
All of which is simply a means of returning to my odd phraseology "purely symbolic politics." For the reasons outlined above (distrust of organization qua organization, belief that the battle would be cultural instead of conventionally political, &c.), many in the New Left shunned pragmatic politics entirely. They believed that symbolic politics would be the only effective means of influencing the course of American history ... only they never were all that clear on where they wanted it to head. More enlightened, yes, but most certainly not more socialistic; primitive, yes, but a kind of mock-primitivism, a Totem and Taboo sans any ritualistic death; &c. In short, they favored a naïve vision of the future which they fostered with a symbolism we still see today in the solipsistic but imagined politics of Burning Man, for example. Everyone enters a new headspace, but they do so in such isolation, have become so self-marginalized that their ability to have an effect is limited by, well, by the conditions under which they practice their politics.
As for your three definitions of symbolic politics, I'd say my definition is an amalgam of them, in part because I think you're talking about the potential for symbolic politics whereas I'm talking about a specific symbolic politics which did, in fact, define itself in opposition to the state and did eschew forms of thought which didn't attempt to play with the thinking of the state. (Magical thought, to return to stunts of the pranksters like Rubin, always involved the symbolism at hand, like levitating the Pentagon because of its symbolic value to the American populace.) While you're correct that the possibilities of political action shouldn't be defined against the limitations of the state, I would counter that, while obviously true, that simply isn't what happened with the New Left. Similarly, while investment in a certain political action shouldn't exhaust an individual's finite energies, it did in this particular case. Part of the reason I felt no one would object to my assessment of the New Left is that I didn't anticipate people would think I was discussing potentialities so much as rehashed failed actualities.
Your intelligent rebuttal demonstrates why I may have touched a nerve: it's easy to jump from one to the other, and my link to LS' proud non-voters facilitated just such a leap. But I'm not talking about potential or theoretical so much as failed actual. Yes, if the New Left were to imagine itself outside the system, if it were to have defined itself as something other than a "truer democracy than this one," then I would see in it the same possibilities you do. But I'm afraid that the reconstituted SDS will be nothing more than the old SDS, i.e. very unlikely productive of even the remotest "chance of building something that might dot that distant political skyline, or ... just play[ing] with looking at different altitudes" which you would welcome.
I've probably left a lot out, but let's consider this the beginning of a conversation instead of the end. Anything I haven't said, or which may be questionable, is open to further elaboration in future responses.
Posted by: Scott Eric Kaufman | Feb 3, 2006 3:08:05 PM
Also, if anyone hasn't read Tim Burke's take on my initial post and the debate it sparked, I highly recommend it.
Posted by: Scott Eric Kaufman | Feb 3, 2006 3:42:17 PM
Good discussion. I haven't read Tim Burke, but I have a very small question for Scott:
Part of the reason I felt no one would object to my assessment of the New Left is that I didn't anticipate people would think I was discussing potentialities so much as rehashed failed actualities.
But can this ever really be the case? Are there not some ways in which the two, in your post, risk being rather less than carefully conflated? I only ask because if you thought you were merely stating the obvious or self-evident, then the question might reasonably arise, why post anything at all? Was this line of response really not anticipated at all? For instance, when you said you anticipated getting flak, to what then were you referring, exactly? I'm genuinely curious.
Clearly you see this chapter in history as one definitively settled, at least within certain (though arguably quite limited) discursive parameters, since made perhaps clearer.
Still,
But I'm not talking about potential or theoretical so much as failed actual.
What was that about wariness toward orienting binaries? Of course your theory of the actual remains theoretical. Unless, again, you were merely stating nought but the most obvious (a dubious posture of modesty, given the general sweep and tenor of your post). In short, when are such questions ever not also ones of potentialities, and above all potentialities by definition not limited to either capital-H-History or "the facts" (such as, attempts to levitate the pentagon remained, alas, unsuccessful).
Posted by: Matt | Feb 3, 2006 3:59:51 PM
Hmm, let's see. Rich, I'm not actually ignoring you - I wouldn't want you to think that - but I've read your comment about 5 or 6 times and I think you misread my post, perhaps deliberately, perhaps not, even at the level of the sentence; I think you toss out arguments for the sake of tossing them out, even when they seem to contradict themselves; and I think the posture of reserved commentor rather disingenuous.
And while I have in the past laughed at the Rich-loves-Holbo-so-much-he-tries-to-be-his-echo meme, and I think I've done so not without cause, I can say I've never grouped Scott and you together. I have disagreements with Scott. He has some rhetorical conceits that bug me, and he and I just aren't going to see eye to eye on things, but I think he's a good reader, and a serious thinker (if not always a serious commenter/poster, but then again none of us are _that_ serious). But you certainly aren't his echo, and given the odd comment you're leaving here, that's to discredit.
Sorry to have to do that, but I wanted to not skip Rich, which I think is unfair.
Scott, I like your response and I do think that the delineations that we're highlighting now are useful and productive, and I hope that conversation continues. This is my one day of the week not insanely busy, and I am going to get back to relaxing in a few moments, but I wanted to suggest a few things in reaction to your comment.
First, I think you underestimate the role that a far left, even so-far-it's-anti-left, can play in constructing the potential political horizon. For most agents, political activity is a compromise and negotiation. True for Derrida, true for my rabidly conservative Georgia students. The negotiation isn't always the product of self-reflection, but the inventional processes that inform it require that certain horizons be taken into account as a structural influence. From there, agency is, as Laclau has described it, the distance between the decision and the structure that determines the decision. One of the things that helps the left is having a vocal extreme so extreme that the pragmatic left can subsequently present itself as the moderate compromise between the leftist extreme and the rightist extreme. No counterbalance has existed from the left for some time, and I think that - and this is what I'm hinting at with the idea of an imaginary - that one is necessary before we begin to think the correct political/symbolic act. Now, if you begin from the standpoint that one's politics must reflect an authentic appreciation for the accomplishment of the goals set forth in that political existence - and I think this may describe what's going on here in your argument - then the New Left is both a demonstrable failure and a bad idea. Indeed, there would never be a time appropriate to/for the SDS. But if you take a view of politics/history that is, dare I say, more wholistic in the interaction of political imaginaries, then those far views are in fact constitutive of a (potentially successful) new moderate leftism, which is to say, a progressivism that can then present itself as a moderate leftism.
Two other random asides. First, obviously, when I'm referencing the collapse of the USSR, I'm arguing that the "substantial link" you outline fails at explaining the second component, not in explaining the problems with the third, so the timeline hardly matters. And second, though you're right that the right has invested lots of resources into packaging their messages for television, over the last few years, the left is trying it too, and it has failed. And I can point to the exemplars: center for american progress and the Rockridge Institute. Neither of them are very effective as of yet, a) because of the argument I've made that you kind of conveniently skip - that conservative ideology is inherently more adaptable to simple, high-paced televisual news media, and b) because there is no far left with which to compromise, and so CASP and RI simply look as if they're trying to "package" what everyone else already thinks of as the "extreme socialist left" (a student of mine's phrasing).
Posted by: Kenneth Rufo | Feb 3, 2006 4:41:55 PM
But can this ever really be the case? Are there not some ways in which the two, in your post, risk being rather less than carefully conflated? I only ask because if you thought you were merely stating the obvious or self-evident, then the question might reasonably arise, why post anything at all?
I posted because 1) I had recently learned that the SDS had risen from the dead and 2) I knew that Szalay and McCann's article would be available shortly. I've read through a couple of different drafts of the article, and the rebirth of the SDS dovetailed nicely with its polemics, thus, the post.
Was this line of response really not anticipated at all? For instance, when you said you anticipated getting flak, to what then were you referring, exactly?
The flak I anticipated came from Emerson, i.e. "It's not fair to judge harshly people who had to make incredibly difficult decisions, decisions of life-or-death import." One of the weaknesses of the Szalay/McCann article (which I'll link to whenever it becomes available) is what I believe may be a too strong correlation between that reaction and the rise of theory in literary studies effectuated by the influx of self-declared former New Leftists into English departments. I see that engine working differently, by which I mean I think people who would've been inclined to join the New Left would be the kind of people inclined to Ph.D. programs in English; the connection to High Theory, the appeal of Deleuze, for example, in the '70s and early '80s here, with its rhizomatic rhetoric certainly would appeal to those raised on New Left rhetoric, that makes sense to me, if only because they both partake of the politics of '68.
I find Szalay/McCann's argument tantalizing, but I haven't read the rest of the contributions to the special issue in which these connections are fleshed out and refuted (Eric Lott's essay, for one, will no doubt take them to task). But given that I didn't draw the connection between English departments and the New Left (although the fact that with little reflection Ray was able to suss it out, indicating that there may be something to Szalay/McCann's argument), I didn't anticipate that response. As I said before (and as I still wait to read and be convinced/unconvinced by in the collection itself), I don't see the New Left's operative principles having all that much in common with those of contemporary literary theory. I could see why people would conflate them, but doing so rips the New Left from its context and, to my mind, devalues contemporary theory.
The examples I've already given (the assumption of a radical individuality vs. communitarianism; mysticism qua mysticism vs. philosophical anti-rationalism; &c.) strike me as compelling examples of the substantive and fundamental differences between Theory and the New Left . . . so much so that I can only see their conflation as a desire to "preserve" an invented legacy of revolt or resistance. Not only do I think it unnecessary, I wonder about its motivations given that, to me, it seems unflattering.
Ken, more later, since neither of us sees any need to continue this conversation at the speed of blog.
Posted by: Scott Eric Kaufman | Feb 3, 2006 6:32:55 PM
In retrospect, the tone of my last comment may have been a little rushed. I too hope the conversation will continue.
Lest the simple matter get lost in the above, I also happen to agree that "the New Left" (to speak once again in the broadly sociological, that is to say, quite generally, with all the danger that implies) was obviously naive in some pretty significant ways, and that the lessons to be learned there are not those of merely repeating, mechanically, certain nostalgic and indeed disastrous formulas. All by way of saying, that I suspect if Scott were to provide specific examples of those "many in the New Left [who] shunned pragmatic politics entirely. They believed that symbolic politics would be the only effective means of influencing the course of American history, I might--albeit in a certain banal and somewhat limited sense--agree. But elevated to the status of a fundamental paradigm (as in, to plant a forest) is perhaps another matter..
Anyway, Kenneth takes the time to make some good points.
(The stakes of Scott's position may rhetorically jab at all of counter-culture as a politics reducible to mere "hippies," etc., but not in any manner that I see demanding much defense (and doesn't Badiou also figure here?) O'course sacralizing the counter-culture (including its numerous anti-hippie and in fact pro-culture--and pro-progressive politics--examples would of course be not 'hip' at all. Hence the crucial hip/hippie distinction.)
Posted by: Matt | Feb 3, 2006 6:47:18 PM
Oh for fuck's sake.
Posted by: Matt | Feb 3, 2006 6:55:56 PM
Perhaps I should clarify that rhizomatic outburst. It wasn't difficult to sniff out (anti-)Theory in the wings (being obvious, however, hardly a good argument makes), and; ah yes, the politics of '68.
Seriously Scott, what's the appeal of these polemics? Tell me what I'm missing.
Posted by: Matt | Feb 3, 2006 7:01:11 PM
To head off any potential confusion, Scott, I myself wasn't drawing a connection between the New Left and all of what gets attacked or promoted as "theory" in English departments. I was just trying to figure out why you'd posted about the SDS to a literary site. Although I may have successfully guessed at the drift of Szalay/McCann's argument, I wasn't making the argument or agreeing with its drift.
What surprises me here is that you say you wouldn't make that argument either. But that's OK; a certain amount of surprise is good for my cardiovascular system.
Posted by: Ray Davis | Feb 3, 2006 7:14:34 PM
All by way of saying, that I suspect if Scott were to provide specific examples of those "many in the New Left [who] shunned pragmatic politics entirely. They believed that symbolic politics would be the only effective means of influencing the course of American history"...
Matt, if you look at the first paragraph of my first response, I cite and point to exactly those sentiments: the purely symbolic politics of the New Left were an outgrowth, on the one hand, of the work of C. Wright Mills, who legitimated a politics via cultural means in his work; the primitivist thinkers who imagined that the divorce of humanity from its primal self dictated a withdrawal into a non-bureaucratic, anti-rationalist realm of human relations; the "magical thinking" of the hippies; &c.
That you don't recognize that as being a legitimate part of a critique of contemporary Theory doesn't surprise me for the simple reason that I don't believe it is one. I see apples and oranges, thus my surprise that some apples take offense when vitriol's spewed at some oranges. So no, I'm certainly not out to discredit all counter-cultural movements, and not only because doing so on the internet would spell the end of irony. I think the problem is that you're extrapolating general principles from my very particular examples, and thus drawing a series of illegitimate conclusions. It's almost as if I said "I think the defeat of the Nazis a good thing" and you took that to mean that "Scott supports the War in Iraq" on the basis that I must not be a pacificist.
As to the potential appeal of the polemics, if I'm satisfied find the evidence substantiating, then the appeal to a literary scholar is deflationary. Literary scholars have not, you must admit, been the best stewards. They've inflated minor theoretical points into sweeping assertions about, say, the social constructedness of all human relations. Give these folks an inch and they'll claim the whole damn continent for Spain. Espousals of the self-evident importance of their work litter every journal of their discipline, and one often wants to ask but is shouted down for asking where all the evidence for this self-evidence is. The question's rarely asked and never answered. The stakes, then, of being able to attach this particular rhetorical mode to a failed social movement are that they empower those who would question to be heard. It will force literary theorists to answer uncomfortable questions about the nature of their claims and the validity of their extensions, at least, ideally it will do so, since the legacy to which they allude will be one of a failed symbolic politics.
Thing is, I think this will be beneficial for both theorists and non-theorists alike, but that's in part because I don't believe the cultural politics of literary theorists have had the far-ranging effects theorists attribute to them . . . and I think it would be a good thing if they did. The denaturalization of monogamous heterosexual relationships would be a nifty, but at this point the argument, though "proven," is entirely academic, that is, limited in the scope of its acceptance to the academy and its peripheries. That doesn't stop some gender theorists from proclaiming the revolution already over, however. Ideally, a series of articles linking the failure of a particular brand of symbolic politics will make people reroute some of the effort put into the endless rearticulation of those politics into making them have the influence already claimed for them. (I know, I know, everybody wants "to think the new." Sometimes, someone has to get out there and proselytize the recently thought.)
And now I feel like an ass. I have my half-composed reply to Ken open in another window, and yet here I've spent 45 minutes writing this. I'm not neglecting you, Ken, and I will reply in good time, not at the speed of blog but something resembling concerted thought. (Not, obviously, that I can resist the speed of blog.)
Posted by: Scott Eric Kaufman | Feb 3, 2006 8:28:03 PM
Ray, I'm not saying I absolutely positively won't make it, because if the evidence is compelling enough, I will. But I think that no matter what, I'll have my doubts about the strength of the causative connection, in large part because (as I said earlier) I think the same group of people would have found the same constellation of thought attractive whether or not the New Left had existed.
Posted by: Scott Eric Kaufman | Feb 3, 2006 8:31:20 PM
Sorry Scott; must've missed the reference to C. Wright Mills. I really can't stand hippies.
Posted by: Matt | Feb 3, 2006 9:09:30 PM
Three short points:
1) I don't feel very invested in arguing whether or not the New Left was a Good Thing (TM), though I found the discussion at the Valve about this issue illuminating. However, I feel someone should mention that for someone like Paolo Virno, the neoliberal triumph in the 1980s and since would be proof precisely of the effectiveness of 1960s protest. I find myself sympathetic to this position, although I am insufficiently grounded in US history to make the case of the US.
2) This debates is astonishly US-centric. Not only were there more than one New Left, but both the repercussions of and influences on the US New Left were always in some ways global, from Cuba to Vietnam, Paris to Córdoba.
3) I would be rather unhappy to give up on "pragmatics." Social democracy does not, or rather should not, have any kind of monopoly on this term. In this I'm sympathetic to Matt's observation that voting is indeed largely "symbolic" (in the slovenly usage of the term) these days. Most of the point of my own post on the Canadian election was that there was very little really at stake there, so the strictly pragmatic choice was clearly to act elsewhere.
Posted by: Jon | Feb 3, 2006 10:03:57 PM
hi Ken,
I'm enjoying all this go-round cross sites. I have just a simple question. What is that has you excited about the redux of the SDS? (No implied attack there, just an honest question.)
take care,
Nate
Posted by: Nate | Feb 4, 2006 1:34:53 AM
Honestly, there's nothing about the SDS I find intrinsically exciting, other than the off-possibility, noted above, that they may provide a more extreme and fruitful imaginary from which a more leftist middle may emerge. What I find horrifying is the idea that the SDS or the New Left or even theatrical/symbolic politics would be dismissed out of hand in favor of institutional engagement, and so in this instance, it means I come down in favor of SDS.
When I wrote earlier that I understand Scott's concern, I really do. I was one of those folks who thought the preemptive Iraq War protests did little, almost nothing, because I think that in a simulacral age of instant news, protests are antiquated and inappropriate response mechanisms. Now I wouldn't dismiss them because of their symbolicity - quite the opposite in fact. What I found problematic about them was their insistence on an exceptional reality: as if we had not been engaged in a long war with Iraq since 1991, a war that had claimed over 500,000 children's lives after the establishment of the no-fly zone and the cessation of open combat, and as if the protests were needed to respond to a real risk of war, a real escalation (as if some alternative existed or as if any of that pseudo-escalation was predicated on a real), and in so doing I think the protests themselves helped to support the reality principle upon which the war was based.
I also have very real misgivings about micropolitical resistance, enough that I even loathe the word micropolitical, and would much prefer thinking in terms of ethics, for reasons that are hinted at above when exploring the first symbolic hypothesis.
But radicality cannot and should not be dismissed simply by dint of its inability to meet its own radical agenda, or even (in most cases) simply because of its own preposterousness. There's a basic methodological question about centrism: are people who claim to be centrists already inhabiting a defined middle ground, or do they resolve the ground itself, producing that middle ground by negotiating the extremes currently in play? I think the latter, and so I think it behooves the left to have extremists against which to position themselves. Now, I say this because I do not believe that one's political expression is an authentic correspondence with one's political desire or intended outcome, and so I am entirely unconcerned with advocating a set of positions or theatrical modes that are not themselves commensurate with the outcome I would like to see. Others see that relationship differently, sometimes at the level of the outcome ("I cannot support something that supports a different agenda"), sometimes at the level of the expression ("I must vote for Nader even if it costs Gore the election because Nader's views are closer to my own, even though Bush's are opposite of mine").
Posted by: Kenneth Rufo | Feb 4, 2006 7:16:05 AM
Let me add one personal anecdote, one that was somewhat significant and defining for me. There was a point in time, prior to the 04 election, in which I was so disappointed by the direction of the country, and for various reasons, very disillusioned by academe that I seriously entertained running for a seat in the Georgia house. There was a need for a runner in my district, I'm already well versed in campaign strategy and message development (having studied and taught the subjects for quite some time), have something like 15 years of competitive debate experience, and am not entirely ugly. And my particular district includes Athens, one of the most liberal areas in all of Georgia. So I figured I might have a reasonable chance, and I began to explore it. I applied for a daylong work session with the Red Clay Democrats, got accepted, and went. And there politicos from the Democratic party talked strategy, media strategists and finance managers talked out how to do a campaign, and so on and so on. I met two of the four most important Democrats in the state (the 3rd and 4th, imho), and we had some open conversations about political mission. And everyone of these folks privileged party success over message production. Phrases like "as soon as we win some seats back we'll be able to start pushing our agenda", or "with the numbers on our side, we'll be able to define georgia politics" or "set the state's agenda," etc. When asked why seats mattered more than the production and dissemination of ideas (especially after noting that, heh, one can actually push an agenda as a minority party - it won't win, but it will be present in the record), the reply was simply "that's the way politics works." Fundraising was high that year, they had lots of good candidates (I was not among them, as I would have run in 2006 or 2008 had I decided to), and they got crushed, again. Anyone want to take bets on the next election?
I don't mean this to be expository. I find it rather symptomatic, for it shows at least one incarnation of a view of the political that treats the instutition as inseparable from the symbolic, a view in which there is no value to the symbolic if it is not already pragmatically defined by legislative or agenda success. Now I'm not implying that this is Scott's view at all, but given the historical record of SDS and the problems that might be raised about specific ways of thinking the symbolic, I thought it might be nice to share an anecdote that operates from a view commensurate with (though not identical to) Scott's concerns.
Oh, and btw, the other important democrats in state politics, really the most important one in fact, has been steadily losing ground to the current tool of a governor, despite her being more articulate, attractive, and more responsible for good things in this state than he is. But he is a man and a party of ideas, and she is, well, a Democrat. Or at least that's what the early politicking is saying, and what the early polling seems to be following. Depressing.
Posted by: Kenneth Rufo | Feb 4, 2006 8:39:25 AM
i'm afraid i can't make it to the end of the comments, so i'll appologise for that now and again promise to return and read more...
i share in the sentiment of matt and jon's reactionary posts. ; )
the u.s. centric nature of the discussion really leaves a lot out. add to it that their is much assumption upon the issue of nation states as well as movements in history having a definitive and outcome-based effect (and affect) alone.
that 'the left' old or new or even 'the right' has any kind of concensus on the function or necessity of the 'nation state' is utterly missing from analogy. the assumption (it seems) is that it should in order to be effectual. and failure is being defined upon that premise - and that leaves a lot out. it does read a little like pandering to state-imposed definitions rather than objective inspection of the process of 'history' as it relates to the present.
since much of the discussion surrounds the nature of and engagement level of ideologies to a certain structure, words like "success" and "failure" are rendered as meaningless beyond the scope of state existance and nation state history - immediately placing the definition of these words in certain context and in fact limiting 'history' altogether.
therefore (in my humble and perhaps less scholarly-informed view) the word "symbolic" comes into misuse or is set within some especial circumstance. perhaps this is the cause of the debate itself?
or.. i could be completely off the map and need to come back and read more carefully...
ken, that was an excellent rebuttal.
Posted by: ricia | Feb 4, 2006 1:37:44 PM
Ken, I really appreciate your last example. I think the democrats are obsessed with first "getting elected" and then dealing with "setting the agenda." Ironically, when the Republicans were the minority party (just 12 short years ago on the national level) they were relentless in promoting "the production and dissemination of ideas." Unfortunately, democrats did not take this strategy very seriously - and based on your experience, they still don't get it. I take your personal example as an indication that both the "symbolic" and "pragmatic" levels of politics actually feed off of each other, or as you put it, the symbolic is an essential "supplement" to the practical business of "setting the agenda." It astounds me that Bill Clinton is the only national democratic figure of his generation who gets this basic point. (Just to clarify, this is not meant as an endorsement of "New Democrat" or Third Way politics, but an acknoledgement that at least these folks know what the game is and how to play it.)
Great discussion, thanks.
Posted by: aLain | Feb 4, 2006 2:17:34 PM
"I am... interested in theorizing and rhetoric."
Yes you are.
An old friend of my father ran into T.J Clark on the way to an anti-war rally a year or so ago. Clark had made a little sign to take along.
"Reverse because Obverse: He tried to kill my daddy"
Tim's also on good terms with an old client of mine, an art collector and a member of one of the families Bush relies on for money and support. And Tim writes books and chats with Jeff Wall, someone whose politics and intellectual perversity rivals his own. But Clark and Wall are both brilliant men, and their perversity is as complex and fascinating as it is compromised.
And hey, Clark gave us the Mekons and the Gang of Four!
You fucking Jackasses. You'd never know Marx was a pamphleteer who actually spoke at working men's organizations.
You describe yourselves honestly not by choice but by default.
Posted by: Seth Edenbaum | Feb 4, 2006 10:00:29 PM
I'm fairly sure Seth is upset with me, but I think I missed the reason for it sometime during that middle paragraph. Seth?
Does it have something to do with pamphlets, or the lack thereof? I give hand outs in class, if that matters... :P
Posted by: Kenneth Rufo | Feb 5, 2006 7:15:50 AM
Seth: "You describe yourselves honestly not by choice but by default."
Yep. I particularly enjoyed the anecdote of the master debator advising the party during his one-day slumming expedition. If only they had listened to his advice! Oh well...
Posted by: Rich Puchalsky | Feb 5, 2006 10:10:13 AM
Seth doesn't have to distribute pamphlets or speak to working men's associations because Seth is an ahh-tist. An ahh-tist who spends, oh, a large amount of his time on Crooked Timber and the Valve talking about his parents radicalism. Rather than, say, creating ahh-t.
In fact, we don't really have a right to respond to him because his parents were monitored by the CIA during the 60s. It's complicated how this logic works, but nevertheless, thems the rules.
Tim's also on good terms with an old client of mine, an art collector and a member of one of the families Bush relies on for money and support.
OK - well, I'll never read him again, since he's on good terms with your "clients," such as they are. Good reason! Good arguing!
Posted by: CR | Feb 5, 2006 10:26:27 AM
See, Rich this is what I'm talking about: you either choose to misread or simply cannot do so with any degree of comprehension. At that workshop, I never inquired as to the value of message over institution, nor did my anecdote ever imply that I did. Nor did I claim that I offered any advice. But as usual, you're not interested in responding to substance, you're more interested in laying a model on top of the world that benefits your ability to assess or provide rejoinders, independently of whether your particular map corresponds with any of the argument territory. This is why, I suspect, you echo Holbo so much. John's a smart guy, if a bit too quick to turn cryptic and invoke travel or schedule difficulties when confronted by argument, and I understand that you "get" and agree with his view of things, by and large. So it's easy for you to seek solace in his worldview, and to appear correspondingly slavish in your devotions. But the truth is, and I hope you recognize this, because if you're going to keep playing at these conversations, you're going to smack into this realization time and again and I hope some foreknowledge might cushion the blow, but you simply don't have the intellectual chops you need to play at John's level. Nor at mine, nor anyone of the contributors on LS. That's not because we're necessarily smarter than you; it's because we actually value thinking and research and expertise, and you find in those things the source of a quasi-insult, or at least you do so when already pissed at one of your interlocutors. I'm hardly a master debater (oh, what clever and original punning!), but I have competed at high levels, have coached very successful teams, have done public debates in front of audiences of hundreds and participated in debates broadcast on television. Does this make me more able to discern political reality or the benefits of message creation than are the career politicans? Maybe, maybe not - what it does mean is I can make an argument for how message creation works and the role that the imaginary might play in political processes, which I have done here, and which you - not surprisingly - are incapable of responding to in kind.
The other aspersion that is equally laughable is the use of the word "slumming," as if I haven't been working towards progressive ends commensurate with my own "theoretical" thinking. As if "rhetoric" as a field isn't constituted by a concern with politics. In that capacity, I've participated in discussions with GFD (the Dean-inspired progressive nonprofit in Georgia); Progressive Commons, which I've since put on hold because of lack of time, was regularly read by folks at Greenberg Research, was cited by the Washington Post, and has led to a number of projects. I'm not out organizing, because I know I'm not particularly good at it, and I'm not running for office, largely for personal reasons that mean I prefer academic work over political operations. Now if you think that's slumming, good for you, I'm sure you're the very model of political engagement, and if you are, I wish you best of luck and hope you all the success in the world, but understand at the same time that whatever skills you have, they simply do not include argument, advocacy, or (apparently) critical thinking. Now I suspect you're a good guy, and that you do some things exceedingly well. These conversations are not one of those things.
Posted by: Kenneth Rufo | Feb 5, 2006 10:52:02 AM
And while we're at it, Seth, is your implication that when you describe yourself (I mean you, here) honestly, you do it by choice? As in you describe yourself and then make a choice to do it honestly? Cause I'm perfectly fine with the idea that describing myself honestly is my default, and not a calculation.
But then again, I don't know as many guys who know as many guys as you, so maybe I just don't understand the oddity that is your world and the network of non-default associates that comprise it.
Posted by: Kenneth Rufo | Feb 5, 2006 10:56:43 AM
"When asked why seats mattered more than the production and dissemination of ideas (especially after noting that, heh, one can actually push an agenda as a minority party - it won't win, but it will be present in the record), the reply was simply "that's the way politics works."
Asking after noting is not giving advice, apparently. Kenneth, you apparently don't know it, but you're enacting a stereotype: the guy who shows up at the recruitment / training, thinks he knows it all, and goes away never to be seen again. You can't value the viewpoint of anyone else enough to understand that the people who made this reply had already mentally dismissed you and were going on to people who were worth spending time with. Of course they had tried "the production and dissemination of ideas" and run into certain institutional barriers that you might have understood and found a way to work around had you not breezed in, condescended, and left.
As for my supposed lack of intellectuality, here's another quote from you earlier in this thread:
"And while I have in the past laughed at the Rich-loves-Holbo-so-much-he-tries-to-be-his-echo meme, and I think I've done so not without cause"
That's a self-refuting statement, Kenneth. I originally complained that people on LS were responding to Holbo as if they were on the 4th grade playground, and that this was cluttering up the Valve with insults and flame wars. So when you refer to this episode, you provide a comment straight from the 4th grade playground, about my love for Holbo. This gives the lie to your claim to "value thinking and research and expertise" -- what you're interested in appears to be ego-boosting, and dismissing any criticism that comes too close to your self-image with another childish sneer.
Posted by: Rich Puchalsky | Feb 5, 2006 11:29:45 AM
You really are a lightweight, Rich. I want you to understand that while I don't think highly of your abilities in the context of these comments or conversations, I am sure that you do good work and are a good person. I believe that, by default or by choice, whatever it matters. But you get angry, and when you do, you get daft beyond imagining. Dafter than normal, and that sucks for you, because you either don't read or don't think when you're in this state.
So, and I promise this will be my last attempt to illustrate this, because I'm not interested in teaching you nor presumptive enough to think you're open to anything resembling learning from this interaction. After this you can lambast me at your leisure, and I will simply resort to snorting and shaking my head, in a "oh Rich!" kind of way. But for now, let me just note a few things.
The workshop I'm referencing had 40 or 50 folks from all over the state, with different levels of interest in running for office or doing campaign work. We talked about strategy, legal issues, paperwork requirements, consultants, finances, etc. A conversation took place about strategy - I described it earlier - of which I participated in the most peripheral manner, neither asking or advising. Many questions were asked, many answers given; many bits of advice were offered from those in attendance (we were selected from a larger applicant pool, so I suppose some thought their advice worth giving), and some advice was accepted, others rejected. The discussion of seats vs. message - the one I describe above - was one of the exchanges, indeed a recurring exchange, and I think it was - as I wrote above - symtomatic of a particular view of politics. It was not, is not, expository; it does not explain why they lost. The correlation between that philosophy and their record is there, and mentioned above, but no causal claim was made. Nor did I ever employ the personal pronoun - "I" - when referencing the seats vs. message conversation. You continue to insert me into that conversation because it behooves you to do so, because your rejoinder is procedural and ad hominem rather than substantive. Now I don't mind ad homs - I'm giving plenty, I think - but I prefer when they're actually based on what is said in the conversation.
Now you say "of course they tried the production and dissemination of ideas". Oh? Really? Know much about Georgia democratic politics, do you? Let's meet sometime, since you must be in the area, and chat about how the Dems are doing. Want to talk strategy for the gubernatorial race? What's that? You don't know jack shit except what the forthcoming google search is going to tell you? Wow, that's unfortunate, because that means you are, yet again, talking out your ass on issues of which you have limited expertise or experience. Why do you do this, I wonder? I honestly don't know.
Or perhaps you might be more specific about those "certain institutional barriers" they've been negotiating? Maybe there might be some intersection here with the argument I've made about political imaginaries - see, I'm more than willing to give you the benefit of the doubt - but then again, maybe not. This isn't a topic in which specificity has benefited you, not since your first comment on the thread.
Now the Holbo factor. I write, and you quote: "And while I have in the past laughed at the Rich-loves-Holbo-so-much-he-tries-to-be-his-echo meme, and I think I've done so not without cause..." I am clearly not saying that you love Holbo, a la fourth grade (your playground experience was different from mine, in any case), but am referencing the same argument (see the word "meme"?) that you have complained about previously. I'm noting that - again this is in the text, right in front of you - that I have laughed at this meme, with cause (the cause being: it's funny, and because you do echo Holbo considerably, and then get upset when folks notice it). Now I agree you're not John. I said exactly that in my last comment. I think the meme is unfair (many humorous things are), and as I have also written, I think the reasons you echo Holbo have nothing to do with love and everything to do with the comfort you find in seeing arguments with which you agree being posited by someone much smarter and more adept than yourself. You misread, again, and I still can't tell if it's an accident or if you do it on purpose. I'm not sure it matters.
But whatever the cause, there's nothing "self-refuting" about my argument. This is a poor word choice, since it's demonstrably not true, and so I won't stress it too much. But when you write "what you're interested in appears to be ego-boosting, and dismissing any criticism that comes too close to your self-image", and do so in the absence of specifics (though I'm going to be charitable and assume you find my anecdote arrogant, despite my explicit request not to do so - I don't mind this, of course, my intention hardly determines the reception of my writing), and that you say it as if ego-boosting is somehow exclusive with an interest in expertise instead of being (much more obviously) constitutive of it, well, then I just end up thinking that you're a sloppy thinker. Again.
So there we have it. Work hard on coming up with some pithy response. Or take off and play with the literary organ (where your political thoughts will really have an impact). I don't care anymore. I'm embarassed for you, and I wish you were a more productive interlocutor, but you're not. Had you half the chops of Scott or Adam, we wouldn't be having this conversation, we wouldn't be resorting to explaining to you why it is your insults fail to respond to even the text itself, and we wouldn't be having to wait and wait and wait for something substantive about the original post to emerge from your sadly predictable fingers.
Posted by: Kenneth Rufo | Feb 5, 2006 12:31:46 PM
I'm a construction worker. I spent a year working on the client's house. I wear a tool belt every day and I've been a 'working man' for 20 years. It's true, I'm full of contradictions, but my parents were not leftist academics, they were academics who were also leftists, bourgeois by default as I am, regardless of how I make my living.
But you tell me how your snobbishness and bookish radicalism has anything to do with the world beyond the rationalist narcissism of an intellectual ghetto. I'm sorry, but I grew annoyed after being condescended to and treated like a servant repeatedly by conceptualists and theoreticians who accused me of being unenlightened. And yet I built their projects for them: hammer, and nails, screws and glue. I got my hands dirty serving those who refused to do the same. I still do, but the pay is better.
Honesty in self-description entirely by choice is impossible. That's why it's called the intentional fallacy.
Honesty in self-description -as a fact- is unavoidable.
That's why craftsmen are so interesting to observe.
"Seth is an ahh-tist."
And what's this, the contempt of the critic for the novelist?
The hypocrisy of rationalist conceptualism disgusts me: in the paradigm of art as illustration, in philosophy or economics; in Brad DeLong, The Sphincter, October, or Arthur Danto's [Miss Piggy's] old Journal of Philosophy.
I'd be happy with the honest attempt at simple description.
That's something to build on.
This place is a shithole. If I didn't take it so personally I wouldn't waste my time. I shouldn't waste my time.
But I just did,
Posted by: Seth Edenbaum | Feb 5, 2006 12:53:13 PM
Oh so you're mad at me because this website seems ivory tower-esque to you. Got it.
Posted by: Kenneth Rufo | Feb 5, 2006 1:03:38 PM
Since I started composing this on Friday and am only posting it not, I want to note a few things up front:
1. "master debater" isn't just a clever pun (at least not in Louisiana) but an official rank of a debater who's earned 2,500 points. It says so right on the plaque.2. All this Rich/John/Ken stuff does amount to playground bickering. As former warboarder I admit that I enjoy playground bickering, but I don't get the sense that y'all do. Ignoring is the best option. (See how I'm addressing Seth here?)
3. Something someone keeps doing sends me a trackback everytime he or she does it. Inasmuch as it makes me look important, I don't mind the collection. But I can see how it might annoy people without my desperate need to seem important.
Now on to my response to Ken:
First, I think you underestimate the role that a far left, even so-far-it's-anti-left, can play in constructing the potential political horizon.
I think I do, but only because I only see the center driven farther to the right whenever the so-far-it's-anti-left declaims something. The center needs to be pulled to the left, not driven to the right, but given the state of the politics now center will always step to the right when challenged. A more effective tactic, to my mind, is the one that MoveOn has endorsed: influence the party from the inside-out instead of blackmailing it from the outside-in. (That telling anecdote from the H-1960s list I posted earlier obtains here.) That said, I agree with your general statement about the necessity of a far left to create the appearance of a moderate one. (As I've already noted twice now, I believe this tactic was partly responsible for the success of the Civil Rights movement. Had X not been there in the background, MLK wouldn't have seemed so moderate a disruptive social force.) And I find this damn convincing:
But if you take a view of politics/history that is, dare I say, more wholistic in the interaction of political imaginaries, then those far views are in fact constitutive of a (potentially successful) new moderate leftism, which is to say, a progressivism that can then present itself as a moderate leftism.
. . . but I do so because it appeals to my pragmatic bias. I appreciate this as a tactic, but it also requires a strong presence and investment in the system as it exists. In other words, imagining an outside-the-system will only be effective if you have agents within it who can benefit from your political imaginary. Hence my objection to the kind of complete withdrawal the New Left eventually thought the only adequate response to circumstances it couldn't control. Instead of trying to wrest control back, they simple abandoned the institutions they'd lost faith in. So on the one hand, I agree with your assessment here, and on the other, you implicitly agree with mine. I call that a nifty compromise.
Neither of them are very effective as of yet, a) because of the argument I've made that you kind of conveniently skip - that conservative ideology is inherently more adaptable to simple, high-paced televisual news media . . .
I'm not skipping it so much as dismissing it. I'm open to be convinced of this fact, but on its face I'm not sure that one ideological mystification is more easily achieved than another. I can see how the argument could be made that one appeals more to human nature, be it imagined as natural or socially constructed, and that certain kinds of propaganda are inherently more effective than others. But knowing your academic interests, I don't think that's where you're headed: I think you're suggesting that certain political statements are more easily delivered in certain popular media than others, and that this is a factor of both the statements themselves and the media . . . and as I said, I'm not hostile to that idea so much as I think there's an element of tailoring, both of the media and the message, that you're accounting for. The medium may be the massage but the media can be massaged. Soundbytes are more powerful in the age of the twenty-four hour news cycle, but there's nothing about the evolution of media dictating that things become faster cheaper and increasingly out of control. It only seems that way. (Maybe. I know I don't buy the necessity aspect of that argument . . . but not the evolutionary.)
[Funny how comments one thinks about aren't longer so much as better.]
Posted by: Scott Eric Kaufman | Feb 5, 2006 1:44:33 PM
Kenneth, you are very quick to accuse me of being an lightweight. You failed to even understand Holbo's argument, and you're still going on about it. (Your reference to your debating prowess on that occasion was the start of the "master debator" tag, actually, which I was not the first to use. Humorous but unfair, right?) If you had ever bothered to actually read what I wrote, you'd be accusing me of slavish devotion to Berube -- he's the one that I quote all the time to the effect of if there's going to be a post-Theory, it's going to have to incorporate the advances that Theory has made.
So it's really impossible to write something substantive about the original post to you. I did, and got back that I must have misread you, that you couldn't understand me, and a load of personally insulting nonsense. And your answer to Nate illustrates what I'm talking about. Nate asked why you were excited about the return of the SDS. You gave a properly dismissive answer, saying that there was nothing that you found personally exciting about them. Your original post included "Had not many at LS been cheered by the SDS being reconstituted, born anew, and that this rebirth marked a time that had come, perhaps there would be no need for Charles' rejoinder". So I guess that having spoken about "many at LS", you're now hanging them out to dry by pretending to a condescending personal dismissal of their being cheered. Given that, I guess you don't understand anything about why a discussion of the benefits and disadvantages of nostalgia might be appropriate to this thread.
Posted by: Rich Puchalsky | Feb 5, 2006 2:07:07 PM
Oh Rich! *Snort*
Scott, I think the compromise you identify is a solid one, one which involves a bit of movement from both sides, and I like it. One thing we can say for sure is that it's frustrating being on the self-described Left these days, especially when those political parties with which we're largely stuck seem both so non-Left and so inept. And yes, I'm talking U.S. and Canada here, as I'm well aware of the topic's geographical bias. The thing I like about the compromise is that it has a bit of that kitchen sink appeal to it - sort of a "for fuck's sake, let's just try everything." Which is perhpas the sort of radical approach that can help the most.
Posted by: Kenneth Rufo | Feb 5, 2006 2:21:48 PM
Ken: The thing I like about the compromise is that it has a bit of that kitchen sink appeal to it - sort of a "for fuck's sake, let's just try everything." Which is perhpas the sort of radical approach that can help the most.
Uh-oh. Is this the return of "the radical center"!?
Posted by: Craig | Feb 5, 2006 3:00:41 PM
The question seems to have become one of political topology.
And I'm suspicious equally of the left/right topology and of the radical/conservative topology that has, as Craig notes, been invoked by Blair and other representatives of the so-called "Third Way." This latter is just another version of the Thatcherite mantra that "there is no alternative." It's a drastic flattening of political space: a monism rather than a dualism.
The notion "for fuck's sake, let's just try everything" is appealing at first glance. And let me note that at precisely the same time as I was writing my own little post sympathizing with those who saw little reason to vote in the Canadian election, I also had an NDP sign decorating the front yard.
But that kind of cynical self-consciousness is hardly a politics.
The left/right topology is especially bankrupt, not only because it is defined and governed by (quite literally) the architecture of electoralism, but above all because it thereby takes for granted the mechanisms of representation. It can't, in short, see beyond hegemony.
Even the state/civil society distinction beloved of the new social movements nurtured or inspired by 1960s non-parliamentary action (to employ a better descriptor than "New Left"), is surely an impovement over left/right.
Personally, though, I'm more interested in the multitude/Empire topology, one of whose advantages is that it problematizes all such dualisms.
Posted by: Jon | Feb 5, 2006 4:05:02 PM
If we work hard at this, I think we can one day reach a point where the entire Internet amounts to nothing but a discussion of that one thread over at the Valve where everything was fine until those Long Sunday bastards....
Posted by: Adam Kotsko | Feb 5, 2006 4:23:43 PM
Charles, I don't think it's the return of the radical center so much as an assessment of specific role that a certain kind of radical politics can reasonably be considered to have in the current American system. (Yes, I did that on purpose. I can't link to past comments, however, so you'll have to take my word for it.)
And I'm emphasizing "American" because, as an historicist and, well, an American citizen, it's what I'm familiar with and invested in. I'm not inimical to discussing other systems, but I'd bet that British readers have a similar understanding of American electoral politics that American readers have of British parlimentary: we know, intellectually, how it works, but we can't fathom the stakes of its finer points. (I could be wrong here, however, since everyone knows how much more important America is than anywhere else. We RULE! Or, at least, we're trying to.)
Another way to put this is that the appeal to an international community in American history has not, conventionally, been heart-felt. "Workers of the World Unite!" signified "White laborers who pay dues to the same union I do huddle up and discuss a possible strike-action!" You know what I mean. So I'm always wary of taking seriously the internationalist claims of American politicos. (I realize this isn't what anyone meant. I'm simply explaining the absence of that ranging view from my original and subsequent posts. Also, I should note that I'm well aware of the actual infiltration of the pro- and anti-Stalinist Left by Soviet operatives, and that that seems to shoot a hole in this line of reasoning. It does, but somehow I manage, one day at a time.)
Jon, while I appreciate the appeal of a system which problematizes, by which I assume you mean "draws attention to the limitations of" such a politics, I'm also fairly certain you see why even the sharpest analytic tool may not yield the best results in practical terms. You know, like Luhman may tell you a lot about "interpersonal interpenetration," but he won't help you get laid. (That sounds glib, but I think my intent's clear.)
Adam, what else can I say except "hop on board and drown with us or stay out there and drown alone." The choice is yours, even if your end is inevitable.
Posted by: Scott Eric Kaufman | Feb 5, 2006 6:14:06 PM
"what else can I say except "hop on board and drown with us or stay out there and drown alone." The choice is yours, even if your end is inevitable."
What dribbling idiot.
Posted by: flig | Feb 5, 2006 7:07:27 PM
With a name like "flig," one would assume you had a sense of humor. One would, it appears, assume incorrectly.
Posted by: Scott Eric Kaufman | Feb 5, 2006 7:58:25 PM
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