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aristotle's attention to language

I frequently get a lot out of essay introductions that academics write at the beginning of collections or selections of so-and-so's thought. I'm currently reviewing some Aristotle, and that led me to Renford Bambrough, about whom I know nothing about and refuse on principle to google. He is the commentator for the selection pulled together by Signet Classic. (Of course by 'classic,' Signet means 'just like the kind you used to buy when you were younger: really cheap, using bad paper, and guaranteed to fall apart quickly.') He has a general introduction and work-specific intros. In the one on Aristotle's Metaphysics Bambrough argues about the importance of figuring out the relation between thinking, language, and the world. This is the subject of Aristotle's work, and Bambrough is trying to convince his readers that the issue is a central one in Western philosophy, and not only there.

Bambrough writes:

For an understanding of Aristotle's metaphysical doctrine, it is necessary to consider further the nature and influence of his presupposition in favor of the subject-predicate form of proposition, and to say more about the relations between logic, language, and the world.

Aristotle needs to establish the right kind of approach to these gross features of the world in order to proceed with his philo-scientific investigations. He can't afford to be 'loose' when it comes to language, the way normal people can in everyday life.

Whether we see metaphysics in its traditional light, as an attempt to portray the most general features of the world and its structure, or in more recent terms, as a search for the nature of the ultimate justifications of our statements about the world, it is clear that, in either case, some conception of the relation beteween language and the world will be necessary for the metaphysician.

Interesting the way Bambrough provides a double description for metaphysics: the more transcendent kind versus the more 'epistemologic' and linguistic kind of metaphysics.

Philosophers from Plato to Wittgenstein have always inveighed against the treacherous fascination of language and have pleaded with us to look at things as they are and not at mere words. But as the work of even the greatest philosophers amply illustrates, this advice is easier to give than to take. Language is the necessary medium of philosophical as of all other communication. Great perplexity inevitably lies in store for us when we try to make the clear distinctions between language, thought, and the world that we must make if we are to see any of them as it is in itself, unaffected by its contact with others.

If we were to follow the example of Aristotle and the seeming advice of Bambrough, the first philosophic task would be to reflect on language. This would have to be done first in order to clear, as much as possible, the misunderstandings and errors that will insinuate themselves into our writing and reading if we are unreflective about language and employ it naively. The medium we employ for our thoughts is the first thing we should interrogate.

Which is what Bambrough does, using an interesting metaphor.

It is clearly necessary . . . to distinguish between those features of a map that correspond with features of the land that is mapped by it and those that are features conferred on the map by the mode of its projection and do not correspond simply and straightforwardly with any features of the land that is being mapped.

So on the map we get a fairly good picture of what Sweden, Italy, and Africa look like and what is connected to what. And the image provided by the map does conform pretty well to what is actually there.

Thus, we may come to think that the correspondence between the map and the earth's surface is closer than it is, and this will lead us into error.

Errors that Bambrough goes on to specify. But since we know that the map is an approximation of some kind, we will be careful about taking it 'literally.'

If we know and understand the projection, we do not have any serious trouble with a map; and since the projection was deliberately devised, it is quite easy to come to understand and to use it. But the modes of projection by which our language portrays the world are not set out for us in any elementary textbook; and although they are human products, they were not deliberately devised by human beings. It is therefore a matter of the most stubborn difficulty to know and to explain at what points and in what respects our language does and does not directly represent the world that it is used to describe. The struggle with this difficulty is a very large part of the task of metaphysics. The group of treatises that we know as Aristotle's Metaphysics is primarily concerned with this central problem.

excerpted from "Introduction", copyright 1963, by Renford Bambrough in the Signet Philosophy of Aristotle (New York: Penguin, 2003), 3-4.

You know, he's right. We should teach language theory in elementary school. If they want, it could be part of English class. A little self-reflection on how language potentially skews the quality and angle of our observations and reflections would be good for everyone. We could assign some Derrida. But also a few other classic thinkers on language as well as more popular treatments of this issue. Properly excerpted, Derrida and these other thinkers could make perfectly comprehensible points to young people that would the basis for useful discussions. Also, no doubt about it, media classes. I think we want people to be a little reflective about the avalanches of ever more sophisticated digital content incessantly washing over them. Apparently, for instance, some of the more recent video football games are about ten times more realistic and addictive than their more washed-out stick figure ancestors. Not to mention online games. We're talking many hundreds of hours of slavish devotion per month.

Getting back to Derrida though, if thinking through critically about how language works relative to thought and reality is good enough for Aristotle, and important to Professor Bambrough, then why in the world do so many people get it up their nose about Derrida? All right, I admit it: I've recently been reading some Derrida. Grammatology. I don't blame anyone but myself that I haven't read it before but I'd have to say that I have never been warned away from a book so much and so passionately, with so many rolling eyes, in my life. That's my fault for following popular opinion and not checking things out for myself. Now that I'm finally reading it I find it to be nowhere near as mythically opaque nor as spectacularly outrageous as I expected.

Let's put things in perspective. There are all sorts of heavy hitters in philosophy that one must devote serious reading to for there to be any hope of following and then assessing them. And so if I'm going to jump on Derrida for stylistic reasons, then I have to compare apples to apples. We're not going to be able to compare Derrida to, say, Jimmy Breslin. If we compare him to difficulty and obscurity levels found in widely recognized philosophic works, we will not find that Derrida is any where near the worst case. When I have confronted moments of incomprehension in my reading of Derrida, I do exactly what I've done for other authors, such as Plato and Hegel. First, 'psychologically' I *push* in the direction of understanding rather than dismissing them. I think there's a danger there: the relief of finally understanding what someone says should not be illegitimately transferred over to agreeing with what is said. It's a lot of work to crack Hegel, or sometimes Adorno; everyone has their own list of difficult thinkers. But if you do crack it, the pleasure of using a code language that only a restricted group understands tempts one away. That needs to be guarded against. But keeping that in mind I do 'push' away from dismissing and towards understanding. The second move is obvious: I consult secondary sources. Derrida doesn't provide much 'context' for Part I: Writing before the letter in Grammatology. He jumps into his topic and someone, like me, insufficiently informed on the theoretical background, can end up disoriented. I use secondary sources to help me figure out what's going on. This is no more than what I would do with another author. In the sections that follow the more difficult Part I, the difficulty level of Grammatology declines dramatically -- and the same is true with others, like Kant, who require repeated exposure and study before the 'way' of their thinking can be followed. The more you read them, the more you get them.

If we can get past the actual obsfucation about Derrida's supposed obscurity, if we can agree that opposition to Derrida cannot be reasonably applied there, then we can talk about what he says. But that is easier said than done. Too many are invested in the argument that has them dismissing Derrida, lightening as it does the reading load. (And Derrida is certainly not the only thinker who is effectively boycotted through this kind of academic 'social sanction', as Mill would put it.) The result is a kind of intellectual stalemate on campus, a kind of permanent cease fire, a don't ask don't tell policy that has colleagues acting collegially enough as long as certain issues aren't broached.

By Swifty | July 28, 2006 in Postmodernism | Permalink

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bambrough, n. (1) A rare and umbrageous tree in the shelter of which all philosophical perplexity can be charmed away.

Where the bread fruit fall
And the penguin call
And the sound is the sound of the sea
Under the bam
Under the brough
Under the bambrough tree.

(2) (from bang-brow) A comment of such transcendent obviousness that were any hearer actually informed by it, he would smite his forehead with the heel of his hand. "Such a bambrough! Why didn't I think of it?"

From the Philosopher's Lexicon. (For what it's worth.)

Posted by: jholbo | Jul 29, 2006 5:51:54 AM

Hi jholbo -- that's hilarious! Well, here we are under the bambrough tree, slapping our foreheads. Thanks a lot.

Posted by: John Ransom | Jul 29, 2006 11:58:39 AM

How pathetic.

Like many of you, I wonder if he knows it.

Terrific post.

Posted by: D. Trombadori | Jul 29, 2006 4:33:23 PM

Getting back to Derrida though, if thinking through critically about how language works relative to thought and reality is good enough for Aristotle, and important to Professor Bambrough, then why in the world do so many people get it up their nose about Derrida?

That's a loaded question, though, isn't it? So generalized as to be universally agreeable. No one argues the unworthiness of the subject being addressed but of the manner of its addressing. Framing the argument the way you do creates the appearance of some necessary connection between any approach to the relation of language to thought and reality is necessarily Derridean. Not the case. All that said, willful ignorance pervades all sides in this debate. Deconstructive thought has no more to learn from contemporary linguistics than contemporary linguistics has to learn from deconstructive thought.

Still, I find it odd that people warned you off Derrida, esp. Of Grammatology. I was informed of its difficulty, of the necessity of reading Rousseau first, &c. But it was never forbidden--and had it been, I'd only wanted to've read it more. (Now Lacan I was warned off, and wished I'd stayed away. Alas!) In fact, if I think back to my experience reading OG, then re-reading chunks of it before my seminar with Derrida, I'd have to say that its difficulty was more nuance- than nonsense-based, i.e. that the failure to understand it, much like the failure to understand Kant or Hegel, was mine. The text is difficult, not impossible; not impenetrable so much as heretofore unpenetrated.

Granted, I was told--and actually listened--to read the material he was working with prior to reading him, since his summaries of his sources is occasionally "unfortunate." (By which I think my professor meant "liable to work over the material he was summarizing while summarizing it.") But that's a common enough failure in philosophical texts ... unless you think Heideggar's Nietzsche resembles the man himself.

Posted by: Scott Eric Kaufman | Jul 29, 2006 5:46:59 PM

Hi Scott I have no difficulty imagining a very different relation to Derrida in one's reading and perhaps personalizing my point was not helpful.

Scott comments: No one argues the unworthiness of the subject being addressed but of the manner of its addressing. Framing the argument the way you do creates the appearance of some necessary connection between any approach to the relation of language to thought and reality is necessarily Derridean. [end Scott]

Fair enough. I agree that not every approach to the relation among language-thought-reality will be Derridean. For instance, Aristotle's *Metaphysics*, the work being introduced by Bambrough, has a different approach. I put the point the way I did because I want to know at what point, or following what turn, in the field of "the study of the relation between thought, language, and reality" do those who spurn Derrida point to when excommunicating him (not that I have anything against excommunication). That's where my curiosity is focused at this point.

Posted by: John Ransom | Jul 29, 2006 8:01:32 PM

I'm still reeling from the fact that I defended Holbo in the thread linked above -- and from Craig, who always seemed to be among the least aggressive Long Sundayans! Someone explain to me what has happened here.

Posted by: Adam Kotsko | Jul 29, 2006 8:49:17 PM

a pond, unrippled
no discipline, unpunished
Adam, a traitor

Posted by: Scott Eric Kaufman | Jul 29, 2006 10:51:58 PM

Revolution
eats its own children;
I am purged.

Posted by: Adam Kotsko | Jul 29, 2006 11:04:12 PM

Now that that's out of the way, I'm a little confused, John. Are you and Swifty one and the same? I only ask because I'm not sure who to address. So for now, I'll limit it to your comment, and not connect it back to the post.

I can't speak for philosophy, but in linguistics, the problem with all poststructuralist thought—not merely Derrida—is that it's post-structuralist in the strong sense, i.e. it's post-Saussurian. The Saussurian conception of language, of its relation to thought, isn't taken seriously in linguistics. The reasons are myriad, and are catalogued in every introduction to linguistics textbook: no language has ever been demonstrated to work that way; the brain doesn't work in binaries unless they're imposed upon it; &c. So for most linguists, Derrida is pure philosophy, since he doesn't speak to the nature of language, but thought. Which is all well and good. (Had I the stamina, I'd relate Derrida's own response to this criticism, reconstructed from notes taken during his office hours. I'll dig it out in the morning, before I do my exercises.)

Now, the complaint linguists have with Derrida isn't related to the one philosophers of language lodge. I'm not familiar enough with the philosophy of language to really address that, however. I'd be interested in learning where that debate started—I doubt it was with Searle—and when and how philosophers of language broke from what would become the Continental tradition.

Posted by: Scott Eric Kaufman | Jul 29, 2006 11:05:07 PM

non-standard effort
Poem Police, behind the shed
violation, tears

Posted by: Scott Eric Kaufman | Jul 29, 2006 11:10:06 PM

Oh yes 'swifty' is the same as John Ransom. Sorry for the confusion but I always thought 'swifty' would be a great nickname, or maybe when I was young I thought that. My middle name is Swift. Enough about me! You know there are those 'linguistic turn' books.

1. The Linguistic Turn: Essays in Philosophical Method (Paperback)
by Richard M. Rorty "The study of the history of philosophy is perhaps the most fascinating pursuit for anyone who is eager to understand the civilization and culture of... [note that this is edited by Rorty and inclues a variety of contributions]

2. Linguistic Turns in Modern Philosophy (The Evolution of Modern Philosophy)
by Michael Losonsky,

3. The Linguistic Turn in Hermeneutic Philosophy (Studies in Contemporary German Social Thought) by Cristina Lafont, José Medina (Translator)

I have the first one but it's on a boat on its way to me. Hope it gets here soon.

Posted by: John Ransom | Jul 29, 2006 11:18:46 PM

I'm not sure the Rorty will be that helpful. It was first published around the time Derrida hit American shores, and marks that moment more than anything else. What I mean is, Rorty's a part of the discussion that post-dated the post-structuralist/philosophy of language break, and it's obvious which side he lands on. The same can be said of The Linguistics Wars, which post-dates the controversy on the other side. Another way to say this is "I know the revisionist history both sides embraced, but I'm not sure what actually happened, or when it did, or what the stakes were."

Posted by: Scott Eric Kaufman | Jul 29, 2006 11:28:58 PM

When the issue is limited to "Theory" and English departments - well, I don't care that much. As mentioned elsewhere, us poor sociologists have our own battles. We still have positivists to get rid of! But, when John and his group willfully maligns one of my favourites - he can have his way with Derrida or Deleuze or Agamben - well, that's another issue.

My point stands: John is proof-texting Foucault in order to present two different Foucaults: one "negative" to the Enlightenment and one "positive" to the Enlightenment. Such a reading of Foucault is silly and betrays a great deal of ignorance on the subject.

I cannot be held accountable if John, like Maverick before him, has an ego writing checks his (in this case) intellect can't cash.

Plus, I've been watching Firefly all week. Those space cowboys (none of whome are called Maurice, unfortunately) rub off on a man, so to speak.

But, I've said enough as it is and have nothing more to say on this issue at this time.

Posted by: Craig | Jul 30, 2006 12:11:46 AM

Trombadori is right. Unless Craig is actually willing to let it go, my life is going to become some sort of weird 'eternal recurrence' scenario, in which Craig keeps leaving the same weird comment over and over. And I keep pointing out that his comment makes no sense blahblahblah. Craig on 'proof-texting Foucault' is turning into a Groundhog Day-style "I got you babe" theme.

Posted by: jholbo | Jul 30, 2006 4:03:22 AM

It seems like a possible answer to John's request for an early text where Foucault is negative about the Enlightenment might be, "There are no such texts."

John might then say, "Are you sure, because I somehow got the impression that there might be?"

Then the Foucauldian could respond, "Yes, I'm sure."

John could then reply, "Alright, then."

Posted by: Adam Kotsko | Jul 30, 2006 10:27:30 AM


Having either schoolkids or college students begin their study of language--whether semantics or syntax-- with Derrida is, I believe, a mistake. The map-territory issue--correspondence theory of Truth more or less--was addressed very clearly and effectively by men such as CS Peirce . But while Peirce (and early Wittgenstein obviously) was quite aware of the problems of correspondence and related issues (linguistic relativism, hypostasis, definition/description, and ambiguity in general), the postmodernists celebrated ambiguity, indeterminacy, and the lack of correspondence and in some sense thereby reinforce "essentialism" to some extent (at least by downplaying referentiality and that the "map" works at all) . Which is to say Peirce sort of deconstructed language (and invented semiotics) early on, but the point was to create more precision, more correspondence. Early AP figures--Russell, Witt, Carnap followed suit. Obviously programming languages follow that positivistic urge and are dependent upon one-to-one models of language, and it is generally only in literary contexts where the unlimited play of signifiers is thought to be a good thing. And postmodernist indeterminacy is not, as Sokal showed, necessarily a proper, PC, or progressive model of language...............

Posted by: Okstok Mada | Jul 30, 2006 3:48:58 PM

I wish that I could get my spam filter to recognize that any comment referring to postmodernism is spam.

Posted by: Adam Kotsko | Jul 30, 2006 5:45:09 PM

Especially any comment containing the line: "as Sokal showed."

Posted by: daniel | Jul 30, 2006 6:27:31 PM

Swifty,
This is really well put: "The relief of finally understanding what someone says should not be illegitimately transferred over to agreeing with what is said. It's a lot of work to crack Hegel, or sometimes Adorno; everyone has their own list of difficult thinkers. But if you do crack it, the pleasure of using a code language that only a restricted group understands tempts one away. That needs to be guarded against."

I can say for myself I have the opposite a lot of the time, frustration over not understanding something makes me dislike the ideas I (may, and may mistakenly) get from something I read. The other transferrence that happens to me a lot is that I encounter a use I dislike of something and so transfer it to the thing being used. Strangely, I don't have this problem with Marx, who I like very much despite his being probably high on the list of the most grotesquely misused thinkers around. (I've lost my copy of that list, I'll post it if it turns up after I clean my desk.)

I assume you would admit that at least some people who are of the bent to read Derrida seriously (I can't think of a non-loaded sounding term) also reductively and unfairly limit their reading lists by neglecting some stuff the other side reads? As in, the social sanction is used from both sides of the fence? (This isn't assert an equality of social sanction use, I have no idea if that is or is not the case.)

I didn't know JD addressed Pierce until having read Ostok Mada's comment. I may have to read more JD now. Thanks for expanding my reductively and unfairly limited booklist, you bunch of so-and-so's.

Cheers,
Nate

Posted by: Nate | Jul 30, 2006 7:59:13 PM

Hello Okstok Mada,

You say Pierce is 'aware' of ambiguity and indeterminacy, while Derrida (or postmodernists) 'celebrate' ambiguity and indeterminacy. And so really Pierce and Derrida share an existence on a shared continuum, called 'ambiguity and indeterminacy in language.' From your comment we could infer that it's not as if Pierce and others from his side of the discussion don't recognize the presence of ambiguity in language. The silly Panda eats shoots and leaves, after all. Pierce recognizes the presence of ambiguity, but wants to limit its effect? eliminate it to the extent possible? (I use question marks because -- and this speaks to Nate's point above -- I haven't read Pierce.) But we also know of other key thinkers in the modern tradition that point to the key role of ambiguity and indeterminacy in language. For them, the ambiguity is the thing -- that's where the insight comes from, that's where the 'clarity' (in a sense) can be found. An example: in describing the case of Dora, Freud argues that "the 'No' uttered by a patient after a repressed thought has been presented to his conscious perception for the first time does no more than register the existence of a repression and its severity." The 'No' is ambiguous because it plays a tactical role among the various levels of psyche famously at work in Freud's account of the psyche. But we actually gain more knowledge about Dora's state by treating her 'no' ambiguously. Just to indicate how this can multiply, if you put 'dora freud' into a search engine you'll find plenty of commentators who want to problematize Freud's reaction to Dora by bringing in other levels of analysis left out in his treatment -- ethnicity, history, and sexism, to name a few.

Certainly Freud and the kind of thinking he models is not an unassailable feature of Western thinking -- but it is an *essential* feature of Western thinking. As you point out, Okstok, Freud's approach to thought is often used in literary contexts. And what is that approach except "pointing to the action of motivations and forces not present to consciousness in the minds of the players." There's a great moment in Schnitzler's short story "Lieutenant Gustl" where a young Austrian cadet is trying to pull out his sword to avenge some slight and this big burly man puts his hand over Gustl's hand, which is on his sword, and holds it there in an unbreakable grip, keeping Gustl from taking out his sword while whispering, "we'll have none of that nonsense here" into Gustl's ear. The big mean burly man won't let me play with my sword/penis! It's hard not to think of the sword ambiguously, symbolically, not just as a sword but as something that stands in for something else, and the burly man not as a father, literally, but as a father-figure. Someone reading the Gustl short story without engaging in some kind of interpretive work is really going to miss a lot, it seems to me. At a sufficient level of abstraction, Derrida is doing the same kind of thing as Freud, no? I don't think it's so much that thinkers such as these 'celebrate' ambiguity (not that I want to make too much of your use of that word) so much as that they think they come across it a lot, and that paying attention to it is productive of valuable insights.

Finally, you say that postmodernism is not, as Sokal showed, a progressive model of language. But isn't there more of a chance of liberatory impulses being released by an approach to language that reveals the 'ambiguities' produced by power, gender, the unconscious, etc.?

Posted by: John Ransom | Jul 31, 2006 10:16:24 AM

Haiku day, is it?

that at least some people who read Derrida seriously...also reductively and unfairly limit their reading lists by neglecting some stuff the other side reads? As in, the social sanction is used from both sides of the fence?

Hi Nate. I think there is a difference between, on the one hand, a general lack of interest in some of what today goes by the name "philosophy" (and resulting modesty, in fact, in pronouncement thereon) and, on the other hand, an active and activist you-must-argue-to-the-death-or-lose-by-default!-carving and boxing up of an entire generation of thinkers, namely those indebted to anything from Hegel to Frankfurt to poststructuralism to Heidegger, to Marx or to psychoanalysis (or some combination thereof), all under some imaginary flag of convenience in order, explicitly, to cart them away into oblivion, and without ever demonstrating a thorough let alone accurate understanding of these thinkers to begin with.

In other words, Nate, to limit a reading list is one thing. To dismiss an entire "school of thought" (not least of all by redefining what constitutes this "school of thought" to suit your particular convenience), and especially when one considers the existence of a real, institutionalized power imbalance and fragility at stake, to begin with...well, that is quite another.

I honestly wonder whether you see all this or not.

(As for prooftexting and John Holbo, I happen to agree with Craig it's important to call such things out. Whether it is time spent with hope for any promising returns may be another matter.)

Fortunately John's post above goes beyond such tired matters. I particularly appreciated this part, as apparently it still needs to be said:

And so if I'm going to jump on Derrida for stylistic reasons, then I have to compare apples to apples. We're not going to be able to compare Derrida to, say, Jimmy Breslin. If we compare him to difficulty and obscurity levels found in widely recognized philosophic works, we will not find that Derrida is any where near the worst case. When I have confronted moments of incomprehension in my reading of Derrida, I do exactly what I've done for other authors, such as Plato and Hegel. First, 'psychologically' I *push* in the direction of understanding rather than dismissing them. I think there's a danger there: the relief of finally understanding what someone says should not be illegitimately transferred over to agreeing with what is said.

Posted by: Matt | Jul 31, 2006 8:04:47 PM

Matt writes: "an active and activist you-must-argue-to-the-death-or-lose-by-default!-carving and boxing up of an entire generation of thinkers, namely those indebted to anything from Hegel to Frankfurt to poststructuralism to Heidegger, to Marx or to psychoanalysis (or some combination thereof), all under some imaginary flag of convenience in order, explicitly, to cart them away into oblivion, and without ever demonstrating a thorough let alone accurate understanding of these thinkers to begin with."

It is with some trepidation that I ask: exactly who are you talking about here, Matt?

Posted by: jholbo | Jul 31, 2006 11:04:22 PM

Hm. Well, that was, maybe, a bit of performative exuberance, on my part. (And yet "who exactly," John Holbo, he deigns to ask?)

Verily, it seems to me we've tredded on this path to death and beyond, and frankly, despite any and all potential appearances indicating to the contrary, I have practically no heart to go back there again (or for a good while) (seriously, I am more interested in the above post, for instance, on Lionel Trilling, or coming up with something to say about 'democracy'–about which there are more than a few enticing threads lying around here still waiting to be...silkwormed?). So, this will be my last comment on this thread. Happy hunting, happy arguing and happy demolishing of empires real and imagined, or maybe just made out of cards, to all. I do hope we can strive for a higher road, (or if sometimes not–speaking only for myself–perhaps keep silent). With that in mind, I gladly apologize for the tone of the above. Cheers.

Posted by: Matt | Jul 31, 2006 11:27:31 PM

hi Matt,

Your now retracted comment is of course right in many respects. All I mean to say is that dismissals happen on both sides of the fence. This particularly rankles me because I find figures often claimed by folk on opposed sides of the fence really exciting, though I'm far and away more on the side you're on. (That's part of why this theme get to me when it comes up - the enormity of small differences is so much more frustrating than actually huge differences).

As for institutional power balances, I can't speak to that because I know little about it and am not in the field of professional philosophy. I did my undergrad in a small analytic philosophy department with a minor in a bigger interdisciplinary humanities program. The two programs didn't like each other but I got a great deal out of being in both. Two of my closer friends are doing PhDs in philosophy programs and they both read extensively across both sides of the fence and get support for their work. Perhaps all this is exceptional. If so, I'll take your word for it.

To put it crudely, though, Matt, when I read your remarks to this effect - about which I really am sympathetic to a large extent though I realize I probably don't sound like it - I sometimes get the impression that for you the stakes are Thought or Philosophy as such, that analytic will crowd out continental and valuable forms of thought will be lost forver. That strikes me as not so. It seems to me that the problem you're mad about has stakes are for people, not ideas. Ideas are doing fine and will continue to do so in the heaven of forms. That people can't get into programs or pursue interests they dearly love and which are genuinely important and that this occurs for illegitimate reasons - that's the subtext to what you're saying, isn't it? or have I misunderstood? - has big effects on people's lives and that's pretty awful in context. But the stakes are those lives and those people's happiness, not thought as such. And if this does happen (again, I'll take your word for it) then it's also bound up with larger questions and criticisms to be made about universities as an industry, as well as how to live and maintain a satisfying intellectual life outside universities if need be.

Take care,
Nate

Posted by: Nate | Aug 1, 2006 12:53:24 PM

Actually, I think that is all very well said, Nate. Thanks, and sorry if I gave the impression the stakes were ever otherwise (though I may be more optimistic about the role–or at least potential role– of institutions than you, I don't know). Cheers.

Posted by: Matt | Aug 1, 2006 1:13:32 PM

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