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July 17, 2006

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hugh

Cool!

I've been reading Being and Event, and I'm trying to make a case (for my own amusement, if nothing else) that one should read the Axiom of Choice as a cultural product of capitalist democracy, which, within the system of set theory, functions as a guarantor of order _without specifying what the order is_, in the same way representative democracy does in politics, and exchange relations do in capitalism. (This is quite different from Badiou's reading of it, as an "illegal and anonymous" intervention.)

And I think you've told me what I should be basing my argument on. (And also given me a chance to articulate it, sorry about that.)

s0metim3s

There seems to have been a period (I don't know, from the late 1960s perhaps?) in which the whole argument about the relation of base/superstructure came to a head - and possibly wandered off in different directions since. One strand of which unfortunately transformed a fine critique of 'economism' into an ignorance of economics as a whole.

But perhaps one of the things to make explicit here, in terms of your argument about these not being separate processes, is some reference to debates about 'real subsumption', the economisation of politics, or similar. I'm not sure which of these you'd emphasise, if any, but that seems implicit in your argument. Though maybe not so explixit to a non-marxian readership.

Eric

Yes, another way in which I feel like a cornball: revisiting ancient arguments about base-superstructure! But I do keep going over this. Without being able to come to any sort of clear resolution. That part doesn't bother me, but its possibly being irrelevant does....

Though I'm leaning toward its not being, and mostly because of the "economization of politics," as you put it, work being done recently. Most fresh in my mind is Wendy Brown. In "Neoliberalism and the End of Liberal Democracy," she says, among other things, that in neoliberalism "all dimensions of human life are cast in terms of market rationality." This is very similar to what I had in mind when I talked about "same processes." So yes, that would be worth expanding on. Thanks for the tip. I need to learn more "real subsumption."

My problem with views like Brown's are many, but now is probably not the time to go into them, except to note that ironically, given that she all but disavows Marxism, she essentially affirms the validity of the base-superstructure model.

Nate

Hi Eric,
I like this post and I'd love to hear more of your thoughts on base-superstructure. I think it's pretty clear that any kind of automatic and immediate determination by the base is a bad idea. At the same time, I sometimes find myself having a hard time squaring that with my view that capital is the primary form of social power today and that that's the primary thing to do away with. That view easily starts to sound like a base/superstructure model again.

Changing gears - I agree with you entirely, but ... the argument is that democracy is internal to the capital relation, right? Fair enough. But, what isn't? Is the model then to be a fully formed subject external to capital squaring off against it? I don't mean these as hostile, they're my own questions.

Take care,
Nate

Eric

Nate, these are great questions you ask, and I'm glad someone else is interested in them. I don't think I would say that "democracy is internal to the capital relation." For one thing, I'm not all that convinced that inside-outside is a very helpful way to conceive of these things. For another, perhaps it's my very vocal inner anarchist speaking, but I'm not willing to concede that the state is subsumed by capital. I don't see how it's possible to think of the state as secondary without thinking of it as neutral, as a harmless, empty thing that the correct economic program can use for its own means. A critique of democracy would seem to need to first admit its centrality, not its impotence.

But you raise a greeat question here, a tough one: how, then, do you account for the antagonistic subject?

Nate

hi Eric,
I'm with you on the state/capital thing, your point is well put, my terms were clumsy. On accounting for the subject, I think that is really hard to do. I'm also really ambivalent as to the need to do so or not. Maybe it's just something we assume - in terms of possibility, not necessarily actuality (like the minimal philosophical anthropology that Infinite Thought identifies in Badiou's work). If that's the case, then my question is less "how to account for this possibility" and more like "how to think in ways which don't discount this possibility".
Take care,
Nate

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