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The "-ian" Suffix
As I've begun to write my dissertation proposal this past week, a question occurred to me on the basis of an unthought distinction I make in my paper: what separates "Foucault's concept" from a "Foucauldian concept"? Say one finds his account of sovereignty in the eighteenth century as unsatisfactory - his account being "Foucault's concept" - and you want to elaborate, explicate and re-work the concept such that it is satisfactory or, in my words, "properly Foucauldian." What accounts for the shift from "so-an-so's" concept to a "so-and-so-ian" concept?
Presumably the move to a "-ian" concept involves formulating it in accord with so-and-so's general method. Hence, a "Weberian" concept would be one based upon the ideal type and making reference to the sorts of social action; a "Marxian" concept would be one based upon its relation to the mode of production and social formation; and a "Foucauldian" concept would be...?
Take Keith Michael Baker's "A Foucauldian French Revolution?" as an example:
Could there be a Foucauldian account of the French Revolution? What might it look like? An acquaintance with more wit than sympathy for these questions compared them to asking: "If Foucault had been a painter, what colors would he have used?" The skepticism is warranted. I certainly have no fully developed "Foucauldian account of the French Revolution" to offer in what follows. Nonetheless I find it intriguing, as a historian interested in the Revolution whose approach to history has also been shaped by reading Foucault, to ask how Foucault himself might have thought about it. Nor can I resist this opportunity to try out a few ideas and speculations about how one might indeed bring some of his ideas and perspectives to an exploration of the topic.
In large part, then, what follows is offered as a jeu d'esprit - a thought-experiment to see what might now be said about the French Revolution and its origins in a Foucauldian voice. But the impersonation is only partial and sometimes breaks down. [...] While imagining how some of his ideas and arguments might advance a discursive analysis of the Revolution, I have also stepped aside to criticize them at points where they seem to be inconsistent or underdeveloped in relation to that project.
It seems, then, that a "Foucauldian concept" is one that "asks how Foucault himself might have thought about it," one that "brings some of his ideas and perspectives to an exploration," one that is in "a Foucauldian voice," one that is a "partial impersonation," but also one that recognizes that Foucault's own discourse might be "inconsistent or underdeveloped." He goes on to list a few other considerations: "A Foucauldian approach to the French Revolution would doubtless have been expected to look somewhat different at varying points of his career." "I would nevertheless suggest that there would be at least two essential requirements of a Foucauldian account of the French Revolution: first, an identification of a specific technology of power; second, a genealogical or 'eventalized' analysis of the appearance of that phenomenon." With respect to the first, "a Foucauldian approach to the French Revolution would surely be a disenchanted one" and, with respect to the second, "It required what might be called a technology of transparison, or making transparent."
However, according to Alan Apperley in an essay called "Foucault and the Problem of Method," the problem with associating Foucault with a particular method is that "Michel Foucault can be all things to all people." And, worse, "I will argue that Foucault's thoughts and comments on questions of method problematise genealogy itself sufficiently to prevent any straightforward association between Foucault and genealogy."
By Craig | August 17, 2006 in Social Theory | Permalink
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Marx seems to be the only figure for whom "-ist" and "-ian" are clearly distinguished. (Somewhat along the lines of a distinction between "New Testament" and "Christian.") The "-ist" refers to the continued history of development of Marx's ideas, far beyond their original scope and forming in some cases a type of orthodoxy (or orthodoxies); the "-ian" refers to "what Marx really said." There may be other figures for whom this convention is used, but I'd be willing to bet that it is by analogy and that the convention was actually invented for Marx's sake.
For many other thinkers, "-ian" seems to be used primarily because it fits their name better: for instance, "Derridist" or "Schmittist" don't seem to work. Nor does "Foucaultist."
Perhaps we should start using "-esque" more often to denote something like "what I imagine Foucault would've said about the French revolution."
Posted by: Adam Kotsko | Aug 17, 2006 4:05:22 PM
Adam's right about the "-ian" vs. "-ist," I think, i.e. while there may be no "Derridists," there are "deconstructivists."
I think the general problem stems from the idea that a given thinker has a consistent body of a thought. When I say Foucauldian, I mean something different than you, probably. My Foucault comes more from X, while yours comes more from Y, thus "A Foucauldian approach to the French Revolution would doubtless have been expected to look somewhat different at varying points of his career." I don't think there's a valid "but" to be had there outside of an appeal to an extra-textual, authorial consistency--which, of course, we do all the time.
All of that said, when I say things like "a Foucauldian approach," what I actually mean is "what is called by other scholars 'a Foucauldian approach.'" The moves divorced from the man, so to speak.
Posted by: Scott Eric Kaufman | Aug 17, 2006 8:51:04 PM
And, yet, "a Foucauldian approach" as a concept remains begged - by saying you use a "Foucauldian approach," even if the meaning is deferred to what others mean by it, you are nonetheless assuming that there is a meaning to the term "Foucauldian approach." I'm not at home right now, so I can't pull out concrete examples, but I'd hold up Nik Rose's Powers of Freedom as a work that claims to be "Foucauldian" but, in the end, isn't particularly "Foucauldian" at all - at least on my reading.
Posted by: Craig | Aug 17, 2006 9:46:04 PM
Oh, I didn't mean to say that it was (hence the "divorce" crack), only that there's a particular Foucauldian dance which goes by the name "a Foucauldian approach" regardless of its, uh, Foucauldianity? Foucauldianness?
Posted by: Scott Eric Kaufman | Aug 17, 2006 9:50:22 PM
Of course there's a dance of sorts, but the question remains: how do you know you are making the right steps, are in the right time, and moving in the right ways? Put another way, how do you know your concept isn't Deleuzian or Badiouian rather than Foucauldian? That is, how do you know you are doing a jig and not a square dance?
Posted by: Craig | Aug 17, 2006 9:54:57 PM
Put that way, you don't. But you can scan the floor and see you're doing the same dance all the other Foucauldians are, which is what I'm saying.
Boring, yes, but there's truth in boredom, however banal. (That said, your question is an interesting one, but not one I think you'll ever answer to your satisfaction. I'd say more, but CR complained that I seminar-drop too much, so I can't tell you the name of the prominent theorist who told the class that he didn't feel quite like his adjective, anymore.)
Posted by: Scott Eric Kaufman | Aug 17, 2006 10:06:49 PM
Yes, the pendulum, it swings to dull. (If I were to mime a troll, I'd have made that pendulum swing to disembowel. This Pendulum, however, has no spikes.)
But to answer goofiness's question--and can I just say, I hate the anonymous internet sometimes, even when it ain't being dishonest--when Derrida said he didn't consider himself properly Derridean anymore, he meant it. What he was trying to say, pace Craig's point, was that the body of thought which arises from a particular theorist need only be inspired by him or her...the actual relation it bears to the original thought isn't so important. Derrida talked of Plato and (in a self-deprecating fashion) of "divine inspiration," but you could tell he was bothered by what people had done with his work.
But yes, during his last two seminars, he was convinced that everyone had misunderstood him. This may well be a case of cold feet, an unwillingness to embrace the thought one's inspired...but then again, it may be exactly that. There's no way shmucks like you or I can actually discuss the emotional dimension of this point, however. It was something that obviously bothered him, but he never seemed to draw a definite conclusion from it. Hence, my mentioning of it here alongside warning Craig not to think about this too much--since if the people themselves can't solve this Rubik, why do we think we can? (But yes, yes, we can to our satisfaction, but that's entirely different. Questions like this are essentially our Trinity. We can bang our heads against that wall, but we have to accept that doing so is more a right of passage than intellectually productive.)
Posted by: Scott Eric Kaufman | Aug 19, 2006 1:34:10 AM
In the interests of full disclosure, it was I who anonymously posted a copy-and-paste of a comment CR made in another thread when it took a similar turn. It wasn't entirely clear to me how a discussion of Hizbullah, the nation-state, self-defense and war was "unhelpful" while Scott's stories from UCI were "helpful." Regardless, the thread took an uninteresting turn and people had complained that it was being highjacked. In retrospect my response was unwise and uncalled for. I apologize to all parties. In order to move on from the outburts of ill-sentiment, I have deleted the comments not directly germane to the post (if you're that attached to them, I still have the emails of them...).
Now, anyone on ideas on the relation between master and disciple? Between so-and-so's concept and so-and-so-ian concepts? The impossibility or possibility of one or the other? What about when so-and-so's concept is unsatisfactory, can it, as Althusser says, undergo "theoretical elaboration" to make it a "proper" concept?
Posted by: Craig | Aug 19, 2006 10:55:37 AM
can it, as Althusser says, undergo "theoretical elaboration" to make it a "proper" concept?
Maybe 'proper' is the wrong word, with its associations of property and so on. Early days in your deliberations I know, but might it not be better to begin with, say, the concept of the epochal and not with the problem of what is properly Foucauldian, even while these are obviously related?
Posted by: s0metim3s | Aug 19, 2006 12:19:03 PM
Craig:
Can you explain why Scott's on-topic comment about Derrida was "unhelpful" while your "stories" from UCI, sorry, York on Jodi Dean's site are the paragon of helpfulness, given that they have absolutely nothing to do with Jodi's initial post? Just wondering.
What, again, do Panitch and Hardt's behavior in Canada have to do with Jodi's post? Enlighten me.
Or is it simply that, here, you've gotten all hysterical about a rather routine interruption of a blogpost? One of a sort that, in fact, you yourself are very capable of committing?
BTW - thanks for deleting my response to your criticism guised as an apology, while not deleting the initial comment that I was responding too. Proves my point, no?
Posted by: CR | Aug 21, 2006 2:13:12 AM
All this because you don't like your own comment echoed back to you, CR?
I'm surprised that, rather than rethink your initial remark about "not being happy with this thread" - which seemed to me to mean something along the lines of 'I don't agree. I'm not going to say what I don't agree with or why, but I'm going to ask you to stop' - you opt instead to complain about (and depict as "hysterical") the sense of this only when it's directed toward you. Ironic, really.
Posted by: s0metim3s | Aug 21, 2006 3:16:38 AM
God, I JUST SAID what my problem with the other thread was - short version: the bait and delete mode of argumentation - but that was, predictably, itself deleted. I wrote my comment when I noticed that unobjectionable comments that I had seen had been deleted. I was embarrassed at the conduct of the site, or some of its members, and said so in the interest of showing what you keep saying is the case: that were not a clique here, that there a diversity of opinions available and allowed. And that not all of this believe in deleting our antagonists, especially when we've called them out.
I don't object to you or anyone, s0metim3s, having whatever opinion they like about Hezbollah, the war. That was not my problem with the thread. I just think we should argue in good faith, and when we in effect schedule a debate with someone, as Matt did in his update, we shouldn't lock them out when they show up.
This is pathetic. I've taken to saving my comments before I post them, since they're deleted so incessantly.
Posted by: CR | Aug 21, 2006 9:15:19 AM
I think you should be able to grant that your initial remark made no mention of deleting posts, only some generalised "unhappiness" at "the thread".
If your problem is that contributors can delete comments, I'm honestly not sure how one can ensure diversity - which isn't just substantive but also about the form of the conversation - without allowing contributors to have discussions with people they want to, or not as the case may be, or to refuse to play host to abuse, if they wish. Various contributors here already have different approaches to comments - from Jodi's relatively unmoderated blog to IT's, without any comments at all.
If you have a different view on this, then you have the capacity to make a post here on any topic you wish, and not moderate the subsequent discussion in any way, if that's your inclination. Personally, I wouldn't have opted for the way Matt constructed the post and hence debate, but I'm not Matt, and nor are you.
And it seems silly to me that you would imagine Matt's behaviour embarasses you - the only direction this can lead is homogenisation, because we each of us start thinking that contributors have to represent eachother. And let's be honest about where this pressure to feel embarassment comes from - hardly the defenders of any kind of diversity, but those who imagine that not supporting Hizbollah must imply one is a Falangist. And let's be honest about the very real difference between censorship and deleting comments, since everyone who is capable of making a comment can (also) talk at length about whatever and however on their own blog (or in their own post here, as the case may be). Indeed, whether Lenin or LCC could comment under Matt's post or not doesn't seem to have circumvented their 'freedom of speech', or their capacity to respond to his post, in any way whatsover.
Btw, once again - this is not I think what Craig wishes to be discussing here, so I'm ok with deleting these remarks, if he wants. (And, speaking of 'good faith', I gather that you indicated something similar to Craig about deleting your comments here - so, your closing remark about saving posts in case they're deleted seems a tad peculiar.)
Posted by: s0metim3s | Aug 21, 2006 11:20:20 AM
Fine, s0metim3s. Matt can run his posts any way he like. I certainly wouldn't circumvent his right to do that. But I don't understand why that fact should prevent me from voicing disagreement with the way that he does it. And, sure, yes, he has the right to disagree with my disagreement, and so forth...
Did I use the words censorship or freedom of speech? I am sure I didn't. I merely said that it was noxious to call people out and then delete them when they show up.
I've said now many times over what I have to say on the matter.
Posted by: CR | Aug 21, 2006 12:55:29 PM
Hm. Honestly, CR, you really haven't said that much. And well, I agree the approach may not have been ideal, nor the most original or most patient, certainly. But I do think the thread helped to draw out and articulate some pretty clear distinctions within "leftist" circles, perhaps. But just out of curiosity, CR, what makes you think that the one and only person I was "calling out" was "Chabert"? And simply by putting "scare" quotes around the word, "radical," and by adding a link to Bérubé?
I just think we should argue in good faith, and when we in effect schedule a debate with someone, as Matt did in his update, we shouldn't lock them out when they show up.
Again, let's see here. Lenin jumped to fill the role, though it was assigned to no one explicitly (hardly a sign of bad faith in itself), and despite his insulting behavior "lenin" was responded to patiently and was never once deleted, nor banned. If something by "hollowentry" was deleted by accident, meanwhile, or maybe because he asked for it to be, well then that was my mistake. Once again, just to combat the impressions or rumors you seem to feel comfortable spreading (and that may reflect poorly on the site in general if not answered): nobody, not a single soul, is currently banned from commenting here. I think, actually, that this is pretty rare for a site with our level of exposure. That said, each individual author reserves the right to draw their own lines regarding tolerance for abusive or distracting comments. There is obviously no fixed standard, or rule, but when an author feels like the thread is being unduly or perhaps deliberately hijacked by personal (as opposed to abstract) er, arguments, they have the right to do something about it. This being after all the Internets, as others have sugested, and etc.
In other words, CR, your original disapproval however vague and - if these latest comments are any measure, indeed somewhat inaccurate - was duly noted. Cheers. Now maybe we have taken up Craig's thread enough for one week, yes? I really hope this is the last time I have to do this. The thread in question–should anyone be unfamiliar–is here. Thanks!
Posted by: Matt | Aug 22, 2006 10:00:53 PM
Fine, well and good. Let's just move on. I am not apologizing because, well, there was nothing inappropriate about initial thing that I did - the comment I posted on the original thread. And if rattling on on this thread is apology-worthy, well, sure, I guess so. But let it be noted that I resisted engagement on this level for a long, long time. When I've been slapped well, a fifth time or so, I'm going to respond.
But this, Matt -
But just out of curiosity, CR, what makes you think that the one and only person I was "calling out" was "Chabert"?
Those are the voices in your head. Not me. I never said that you were only calling out Chabert. Project much?
THE END
Posted by: CR | Aug 22, 2006 10:18:15 PM
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