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why bother with Being?
Heidegger is quite aware that asking about Being raises the question of relevance. What motivates him to write about it? First, he points out, there is the fact that this is a theme addressed by Aristotle, and a certain respect for giants in the field inclines us to take it seriously when, not just anyone, but a giant raises a topic. Also, the available answers to the question of what Being is seem unhelpful – it's undefinable, it's the most general thing around. Heidegger puts it this way:
Up to now the necessity of a retrieve of the question [of Being] was
motivated partly by its venerable origin but above all by the lack of a
definite answer, even by the lack of any adequate formulation. But one
can demand to know what purpose this question should serve. Does it
remain solely, or is it at all, only a matter of free-floating
speculation about the most general generalities – or is it the most
basic and at the same time most concrete question?
Bisher wurde die Notwendigkeit einer Widerholung der Frage einmal aus
der Ehrwürdigkeit ihrer Herkunft motiviert, vor allem aber aus dem
Fehlen einer bestimmten Antwort, sogar aus dem Mangel einer genügenden
Fragestellung überhaupt. Man kann aber zu wissen verlangen, wozu diese
Frage dienen soll. Bleibt sie lediglich oder ist sie überhapt nur das
Geschäft einer freischwebenden Spekulation über allgemeinste
Allgemeinheiten – oder ist sie die prinzipiellste und konkreteste Frage
zugleich? (§ 3)
And of course the italicized part is Heidegger's own view. Additional support for the importance of the question of Being can be found in the fact that, according to Heidegger, there is an "average and vague understanding of being / durchschnittliche und vage Seinsverständnis" (§ 2). The "question of Being" is one that we all share; in writing this text, Heidegger is addressing a theme that is present everywhere in our own lives, and in this sense the inquiry is not 'meta' 'physical' (not 'above' 'life'). As he says: "No matter how much this understanding of being wavers and fades and borders on mere verbal knowledge, the indefiniteness of the understanding of being that is always already available is itself a positive phenomenon which needs an elucidation. / Dieses Seinsverständnis mag noch so sehr schwanken und verschwimmen und sich hart on der Grenze einer bloßen Wortkenntnis bewegen – diese Unbestimmtheit des je schon verfügbaren Seinsverständnisses ist selbst ein positives Phänomen, das der Aufklärung bedarf." (§ 2)
Much of § 3 is taken up explaining the relation of Heidegger's book to the sciences and other philosophic attempts to discuss being. Just a couple of moments that seem important to me:
A science's level of development is determined by the extent to which
it is capable of a crisis in its basic concepts. In these immanent
crises of the sciences the relation of positive questioning to the
matter in question becomes unstable. Today tendencies to place research
on new foundations have cropped up on all sides in the various
disciplines.
Das Niveau einer Wissenschaft bestimmt sich daraus, wie weit sie einer
Krisis ihrer Grundbegriffe fähig ist. In solchen immanenten Krisen der
Wissenschaften kommt das Verhältnis des positiv untersuchenden Fragens
zu den befragten Sachen selbst ins Wanken. Allenthalben sind heute in
den verschiedenen Disziplinen Tendenzen wachgeworden, die Forschung auf
neue Fundamente umzulegen.
The above reminds us a bit of Thomas Kuhn's book on Scientific Revolutions, no? Could we say: when science is not in crisis, its 'being' is hidden. When there is a crisis, when we are in transition from one paradigm to another, previously hidden being is to an extent available for viewing? Heidegger continues:
The discipline which is seemingly the strictest and most securely
structured, mathematics, has experienced a "crisis in its
foundations."....Relativity theory in physics grew out of the tendency
to expose nature's own coherence as it is "in itself." As a theory of
the conditions of access to nature itself it attempts to preserve the
immutability of the laws of motion by defining all relativities; it is
thus confronted by the question of the structure of its pre-given area
of knowledge, that is, by the problem of matter.
Die scheinbar strengste und am festesten gefügte Wissenschaft, die
Mathematik, ist in eine "Grundlagenkrisis" geraten....Die
Relativitätstheorie der Physik erwächst der Tendenz, den eigenen
Zusammenhang der Natur selbst, so wie er "an sich" besteht,
herauszustellen. Als Theorie der Zugangsbedingungen zur Natur selbst
sucht sie durch Bestimmung aller Relativitäten die Unveränderlichkeit
der Bewegungsgesetze zu wahren und bringt sich damit vor die Frage nach
der Struktur des ihr vorgegebenen Sachgebietes, vor das Problem der
Materie.
The implication of the above is that "matter" itself has become problematic as a foundation for science. Or am I misreading Heidegger here? Am I right in thinking that Heidegger is mentioning these developments in science to buttress the case that the problem of being is important and should not be dismissed as airy speculation? If he's right that there is an average understanding of being that just isn't worked out, can we, Heidegger's readers, make the issue of being more explicit ourselves, even before we go further in Heidegger's discussion of it? Can we think of 'examples' of being?
Perhaps there is a hint in Heidegger's discussion of sciences that enter into crisis, such that "the relation of positive questioning to the matter in question becomes unstable / das Verhältnis positiv untersuchenden Fragens zu den befragten Sachen selbst ins Wanken."
It's in the transition from one kind of being to another that we can glimpse 'being'. Take a fictional example: Tony is a highly regarded professor who gets his way a lot where he works. But every weekend he goes to his parents for dinner, and there the conditions are recreated in which what he does professionally isn't taken very seriously, his will is disregarded, and he finds himself engulfed in an environment he cannot escape, obeying rules and playing roles that would surprise his co-workers.
Is that the kind of thing Heidegger is talking about when he suggests being is "the most basic and at the same time most concrete question / die prinzipiellste und konkreteste Frage zugleich"? Or is that a trivialization of it?
By Swifty | April 4, 2007 | Permalink
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favorite German word from the excerpts above: Wanken. It means to waver, shake, vacillate, sway (like trees in the wind).
Posted by: Swifty | Apr 4, 2007 3:01:32 PM
Hi swifty, I'll take a crack at it.
First of all, I don't think cheerful examples are the best way to approach Heidegger. Heidegger's too serious for cheer. But that shouldn't prevent us from being cheerful! It just means his thoughts are tragic and sad, and to capture their essence, one must become melodramatic.
Secondly, I don't think we ever glimpse being, according to Heidegger. Being is self-concealing (cf. Early Greek Thinkers and a-letheia, forgetting is at the heart of rememberance, etc. etc. those fragments you remember are in an essential relation to those parts you must forget, etc. and so forth), meaning concealment is constitutive (not really a Heideggerian word) of revealing (divine revelation, or just, "ta-da!" presto revealing). This is the consequence of taking time as 'the' horizon and making space unimportant--i.e. everything is in flux. Heidegger's "care" is, in a sense, a painful, laborious attempt to reconstitute a space made of time. Silly.
So, clearly, I like your set up: why bother with being? And Heidegger's answer is telling. It suggests that those who do not confront the question directly, who ask about being in a partial way, like, "what is the being... of Canada from 1935-47?" aren't really asking about being, or don't understand that they're asking about being, or can't possibly arrive at a profound answer. I'm probably misreading it, but I think in "The end of philosophy and the task of thinking," Heidegger defines philosophy as whatever the sciences aren't. In other words, he can accept that the physicists are doing sloppy metaphysics, but he can't accept that his metaphysics is ornate physics. He want's philosophical speculation to be more important than maybe it is... or more pious. He's a bastard, at any rate. My question is, with so many interesting ontologies out there, why are people today fixating on this Nazi douchebag? Why was the world waiting for a Heidegger? Unless you believe that some people are truly blessed. I'm just joshing ya; clearly I love Heidegger, in a way. But I wish he told more jokes.
Posted by: Cornchops | Apr 4, 2007 8:32:09 PM
Can we think of 'examples' of being?
Sure. An example "is" something. What does that mean? In other words, What does it mean to say, here "is" an example?
We say being when we say anything. Examples are everywhere...we find it hard to articulate an answer to the question I posed above, though. Thus, we have a vague pre-understanding of being, which thus becomes questionable for us.
Posted by: CBR | Apr 5, 2007 12:09:17 AM
Maybe we could ask to what extent H himself 'bothers with being'. The point of the intro to SZ seems to be to move backwards from the 'question of being' to the nature of questioning and hence to Dasein as the entity which questions. The question of being doesn't get answered, it just leads us deeper into questioning itself ... so being is kind of a void or placeholder after all, but (presumably) in some deeper sense than in the dismissal of ontology as hand-waving generalisation. The relativity example presumably offers an analogy for this backwards movement. What i can't work out is if it's supposed to offer more than that.
Otherwise - and altho' i agree that we do need to appeal both to the constitutive elusiveness of being and to our vague pre-understanding of it - H seems to stand open to the charge of elevating a contingent fact about certain natural languages (Indo-European in particular) - that they possess a verb 'to be' - to an unwarranted metaphysical primacy.
Posted by: tl | Apr 5, 2007 8:32:32 AM
Cornchops writes:
First of all, I don't think cheerful examples are the best way to approach Heidegger. Heidegger's too serious for cheer. But that shouldn't prevent us from being cheerful! It just means his thoughts are tragic and sad, and to capture their essence, one must become melodramatic.
[end Cornchops]
You may be right! But doesn't Heidegger say we should investigate being in its "average everydayness"? (Or rather, to paraphrase, we should investigate Dasein, because it is a being, for whom the question of being is a concern; and we should do that not using the strained and artificial approaches familiar from the tradition, such as Descartes' treatment of that poor ball of wax.)
But also, don't you think the story about the professor is a little sad? Every weekend he has to give up his privileges and humor his parents by going along with their by now outdated being. They haven't been able to project a sphere of being for a long time, quite frankly, but their professor son has to go along with the farce.
I take tl's point that Heidegger has moved from being to Dasein and an accounting of its being.
A lot of philosophic texts are designed to put the reader through a "training camp" where the idea is less to persuade than it is to transform, in some way, the reader, so that she is different after than she was before. For instance Descartes puts his readers through a few paces in order to soften them up and make them more inclined to grant key assumptions. Kant works had to prepare the reader to approach the Critique of Pure Reason in a certain way, in the 1787 Introduction, but maybe a better job is done by squeezing the reader through the various mechanisms of the Critique, so that you really just have a differently equipped mind by the time you're through. Of course, that doesn't work with everyone.
Posted by: Swifty | Apr 5, 2007 6:10:38 PM
I'm just joshing ya; clearly I love Heidegger, in a way. But I wish he told more jokes.
Try Woody Allen, Side Effects.
Posted by: Matt | Apr 5, 2007 7:39:58 PM
I was thinking more of a logical structure in which being acted as a mirror which somehow rendered visible the shape of thought as questioning. The idea of philosophy as a transformation of the self certainly has a venerable history, but i'm inclined to think it's one which makes more sense in a pagan / secular context, and SZ is still too Christian in this respect - the key event is one which philosophy can certainly describe or elucidate, but not substitute for. (Unless perhaps you can work the Husserlian epoché into this history.)
This points up another way to read the professor: he thinks he's accomplished this transformation, but the return to the family home shows it to be at the mercy of particular contexts and meanings outside his control. Philosophy happens somewhere in the space between these perspectives.
Posted by: tl | Apr 6, 2007 5:33:51 AM
tl writes: "...a logical structure in which being acted as a mirror which somehow rendered visible the shape of thought as questioning..."
That's very suggestive and I have a feeling I'll be thinking back to that thought as I continue reading.
and: "Philosophy happens somewhere in the space between these perspectives."
Perhaps because there's a 'comparative' element that is introduced. We are not talking about a phenomenon that is unfamiliar to anyone. The variety of roles we assume, the variety of moods we encounter and then respond to . . . "Over here a professor, over there something else entirely, well, which is it? And if it's not either/or then how merge them, or should I merge them into some 'higher' unity?"
Posted by: Swifty | Apr 6, 2007 12:14:17 PM
"""It just means his thoughts are tragic and sad, and to capture their essence, one must become melodramatic."""
Yass, Herr Cornchops giving it his Apollonian best against the dionysian LScheks. Yet the po-mo's have mostly succeeded in even removing the tragic, Bergmannesque, "existentialist" aspects of Heidegger that may have entertained a few dupes back in the day; the Heidegger we recall was closer to Kierkegaard than to Hegel or greeks (tho' yes with the Heraclitus-like roots in elemental Being (flux--rather than platonic,perhaps) that might make a few scenester-steins nervous), and not to be taken tooo seriously, except by brooding poet- maudit types. But po-mo's, like their marxist daddies, were not so into acknowledging death---neither were the logicists, however............
Posted by: Phlojo | Apr 6, 2007 1:19:55 PM
Yet there is a question regarding Heidegger's reading of Heraclitus and other pre-socratics, which scholars more astute than Phlojo might address: Heraclitus, like his descendent Hegel, seems to have rejected the static, transcendent Being of Parmenides (which Plato more or less upholds): Logos is flux--Becoming, rather than Being---and thus in a sense physics, rather than mathematics is first philosophy: that is, the objective, dialectical Idea (tho' again Hegel hisself may be misreading Heraclitus as well, and intepreting in more xtian-idealist terms) consists of Mind reflecting on motion, matter, nature, elements, historical process, etc. (and possibly heliocentric?). And Aristotle himself held Heraclitus to be a dialectical materialist of some sort: Becoming as dialectic, even empirical dialectic (tho' NOT the same as marxist-naturalist-dialectic, of course)---. Who the F. cares down at the Dogtrack you say? Anyone who objects to platonic idealism in its various manifestations, whether judaic-xtian, logicist (Fregean), or even marxist-statist....So Heidegger himself, we humbly suggest, misconstrues the empirical, temporal dialectic of old wizard Heraclitus..........
Posted by: Phlojo | Apr 6, 2007 2:04:22 PM
Man, that Long Sunday Troll Text Generator program is brilliant - almost sounds like material written by an actual person.
Posted by: Nate | Apr 6, 2007 2:26:09 PM
Yep marxist, Heraclitus, (or material readings of Hegel, Nietzsche, or german physics for that matter) will have you spouting Troll for weeeks: or how about petit-booj-wah jackal, etc.. Heidegger (and his cadre) mocks the few worthwhile ideas of Hegel hisself (temporality itself--i.e. the development of the 3rd Antinomy, currently in pimp-process by Zizek ).
Posted by: Phlojo | Apr 6, 2007 2:34:04 PM
What Nate said. I particularly like the nested-parentheses feature.
Posted by: Wade | Apr 6, 2007 3:21:50 PM
"Yet the po-mo's have mostly succeeded in even removing the tragic, Bergmannesque, "existentialist" aspects of Heidegger that may have entertained a few dupes back in the day"
If only it were true. Sartre takes some of the moodier moments from Being and Time and really runs with them in Being and Nothingness. That said, it is sometimes difficult to buy the idea that Heidegger isn't passing ethical judgment on -- inauthenticity! Oh no! Go ahead, be inauthentic, see if I care! Obviously you don't "care."
"the Heidegger we recall was closer to Kierkegaard than to Hegel or greeks"
Rüdiger Safranski, author of the biography Martin Heidegger: Between Good and Evil agrees with you on the importance of Kierkegaard for the development of Heidegger's thinking:
"[Heidegger's] study of Kierkegaard helps [him] against Husserl's immance of consciousness. Kierkegaard's attack on the illusory sovereignty of the spirit proceedds not, as with Dilthey, from historical life, but from the ineradicable difference between thought and existence. Amid the complexities of life, we find ourselves time and again in situations in which we must decide who we wish to be. We leave the sphere of the merely thinkable; we must take a stand, assume responsibility; we cannot avoid turning from a possibility person, who can consider everything, into a reality person, who from the thinkable selects that which binds him in internal and external action. According to the existentialist critique of Kerkegaard, the philosophy of consciousness is the only escape from the risks of life lived. Historical circumstances themselves will see to it that this power of historical and existential life will remain more than just an idea for Heidegger." Extracted from Rüdiger Safranski, Martin Heidegger: Between Good and Evil, HUP, 1998, p. 83.
Posted by: Swifty | Apr 6, 2007 3:36:53 PM
Hegel's thoughts on the pre-socratics (and socratics) are interesting, tho' I think he tends to idealize (or Geist-ize, if you will, since Idea is a rather problematic term) the tradition of western thought. I suspect that as a xtian--or at least having some interest in preserving theology, Kierkegaardian or otherwise--Heidegger sort of resists the Heraclitus Logos (dialectical materialism---process, Aristotle, and classical physics, ultimately), and instead sides with Parmenides (tho' not really with Plato).
Hegel on the other hand is Heraclitus reincarnated, mostly, though I suspect Heraclitus would have respected even Newton, Copernicus, etc, say; as Aristotle certainly would. Kant too, given the 3rd antinomy, the traces of material idealism, if you will, might be read as a descendent of Heraclitus. Or something of the sort. The point is that the Germans are addressing--and objecting to---Platonic/Cartesian dualism, but refusing the strict empirical materialism ala the Brits, instead upholding idealism, tho' the idealism of Kant and Hegel is NOT the sort of material idealism of Heraclitus--(nor Osiris forbid, the bizarre dreams of Berkeley). In ways Heraclitus--tho' there is not much remaining--seems a bit like CS Pierce, who is taken by rubes to be a sort of pragmatist, when in fact he is an idealist, yet still a scientific materialist of sorts: the elements, matter, indeed Nature, think for both Heracliteans, and CS Pierce--perhaps that is "immanence" to some degree, but not necessarily mystical. And Heraclitus also seems to have had an awareness of entropy , or at least decay and impermanence, which is at odds with the grand schemes of platonic metaphysics.
If Heidegger is Heraclitean--and he has traces of that, tho' I need to review cliffsnotes to Being and Time---or even Aristotelian, he does a good job in effacing it, and bringing out the murky Kierkegaardian gloom. (Aristotle also closer to Heraclitus than to Plato in ways, tho' with awareness of the importance--even scientific importance or pythagoreans, Zeno, etc).
Hegel on Vati Heraclitus (also one of Nietzsche's Top 10 of filosophes):
With this in view, we find Heraclitus, according to Clement of Alexandria (Strom. V. 14, p. 711), saying: “The universe was made neither by God nor man, but it ever was and is, and will be, a living fire, that which, in accordance with its Jaws, (metrw) kindles and goes out.”
It's to the credit of the apparatchiks that they actually include some non--marxist dogma (Popper btw read Heraclitus as proto-fascist--that may explain why some of us in cheap seats dig him, Sir karl)
http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hegel/works/hp/hpheraclitus.htm
Posted by: Phlojo | Apr 6, 2007 4:52:19 PM
But be assured, idealism or not, both GWF Hegel and the de-geist-ized Nietzsche (and I suspect Heidegger) would be (are?) in agreement on one key issue: the Marxist-leftist reversal of the classical dialectic (in Kantian terms, Freedom-Nature becomes Nature/Freedom--Kant and Hegel had rooted for Freedom; Marx, following bad readings of Brit. empiricists, goes for Nature) must be counted as one of history's great intellectual errors.......
Posted by: Phlojo | Apr 6, 2007 5:24:53 PM
Hmm, the trolling is so thick every time Heidegger is mentioned that it's hard to get a word in edgewise with all the white noise. Swifty, my last post was a laconic attempt to point to the unavoidability of the seinsfrage. The latter may be quickly answered and then dismissed, but dismissing it without an answer at all is just trolling. Reminds me of the Heidegger listserv I visited a few years back, only to find a persistent troll doing most of the posting...the guy was so dumb that he went on and on about how ontology was meaningless and irrelevant, and in the next breath maintained that the only things that really "are", are subatomic particles.
Posted by: CBR | Apr 6, 2007 10:03:30 PM
Anyway, I think your example was a good one, and not trivial at all. Although it pointed to a shift in identity or subjectivity, hence an existentiell and not a full-on ontological shift, it brings out really well the point that Being, in SZ, is what allows something to show up AS something.
Posted by: CBR | Apr 6, 2007 10:32:35 PM
No the problem is you're a marxist who doesn't know sheeit abot philosophy, even the shit you pretend to know: Heidegger is NOT down with marxism. You got that? Say troll to may face, byatch. I doubt you've read Kant's 1st critique, much less Nietzsche. You sound a hairdresser for the Cheka.
Posted by: Phlojo | Apr 6, 2007 11:20:02 PM
Actually hard-core empirical realists are closer to Aristotle than are the existentialists (and Aristotle also much influenced by Heraclitus). It is the phenomenologists and existentialists, neo-hegelians of every stripe who are out of step with greek objectivity (even the objectivity of platonic realism), and all the grand jargon spouting, neo-logisms, "revealings," Kierkegaardian gloom, concealment BS, does not magically conjure up some pre-socratic Being, assuming that such a Being should even be conjured up. There is some bizarrre if not nearly occultic "method" at work with Heidegger (which even sane orthodox marxists should object to, were any around) where he assumes that he can avoid all the types of arguments that a Descartes, Locke, Hume or even Kant engage in--yet platonism or the Res Cogitans are not givens; a priori Dasein is not a given. One wonders if anything like a necessary definition of Dasein can really even be established. It's nice for vichy poets (or stalinist hairdressers maybe); but some sound and valid system it ain't.
Posted by: Phlojo | Apr 6, 2007 11:49:57 PM
Phlojo writes:
One wonders if anything like a necessary definition of Dasein can really even be established. [end Phlojo]
In Section 4 of Being and Time I think Heidegger provides a pretty good definition.
Da-sein is a being that does not simply occur among other beings. Rather it is ontically distinguished by the fact that in its being this being is concerned about its very being.
Das Dasein ist ein Seiendes, das nicht nur unter anderem Seienden vorkommt. Es ist vielmehr dadurch ontisch ausgezeichnet, daß es diesem Seienden in seinem Sein um dieses Sein selbst geht.
Seems like a fairly clear definition to me. Now, there's clarity on the one hand. Any definition should be clear. But in addition this seems like a 'useful' move on Heidegger's part. Not just clear, then, but meaningful; operational. Instead of using a well-known and heavily freighted term like 'human being' he gives himself a very different kind of access to some problems. But if we wanted, we could 'rewrite' his thought temporarily just to see if having it stated in more 'familiar' ways brings out the idea for us. How about this: "Lots of people tell us about what kind of animal humans are. They are tool-making animals, language-using, sexual creatures, and so on. Heidegger's contribution to this tradition is that humans are animals whose primary distinguishing feature is that they are 'concerned' about themselves."
And I don't think this contribution to the tradition of asserting that 'x' is the most important feature of human beings is mere word play, mere neologism for neologism's sake. It identifies something quite real, very concrete. And there is a good argument to be made that at least in some ways it is an improvement on the tradition of identifying the kind of animal humans are, precisely because there's too much emphasis on humans as animals who, like animals, "do things," like use their voice, or build weapons and tools.
I get up in the morning and I use tools, like my keyboard, and I could think of lots of other tools I use, if I wanted to. I once used a hammer to put up a poster of St. Augustine in my room but what was really going on there was not that I was a "tool-using animal" (didn't make the hammer, so can't even pretend I'm a tool-maker) but rather I am a creature that is concerned about its being, and so I do things to my environment to make it more being and mood-friendly. Heidegger's definition covers the full range of what I have done: my desire to cover the bare walls of my study; to cover it with appropriate study-ish representations; the choice of the specific representation (not this one, but rather that one); the borrowing of the hammer from the building superintendent; the use of same to afix the poster to the wall; the forgetting to return the hammer to the superintendent because, what, he can't get another hammer? And what is that being there that has done all that? That's a being whose being is an issue for it, and that seems to capture a lot more of (while also including) what's going on than previous attempts to to characterize it.
Posted by: Swifty | Apr 7, 2007 10:42:06 AM
Swifty,
Unfortunately, your rephrasing of Heidegger won't work for Heidegger. For one thing, he explicitly objects to defining Dasein as an animal with a distinguishing feature. This, he says, is done by first arriving at the abstraction "bare life" and then adding on something or other to distinguish it. Secondly, this would be a categorial, not an existential, definition, and as such inappropriate for Dasein. Dasein is not a thing, but a way of being. It is indeed possible to define human beings categorially in certain ways, which is why "human being" and "dasein" are not coterminous. Dasein is the site where things like categories can meaningfully occur, and is not itself categorially definable, but rather is defined by "existentials" or ways of being, which "formally indicate" movement and not things. In other words, daein is the movement of disclosure that allows things like categories and what they define to be disclosed. To define dasein categorially is instinctive, because dasein is "initially and for the most part" absorbed in the beings it discloses and misses its essence as disclosure itself. Therefore, the definition of dasein as exisential movement is counter-intuitive and inspires trolls to indignantly post on Long Sunday. But we authentic Marxo-fascists know that this is just the voice of Das Man.
Posted by: CBR | Apr 7, 2007 11:17:05 AM
Grant that humans, or some humans, possess unique intellectual capacities (all the Kantian "modes" if you will) greatly exceeding, oh, baboons. That does not mean that humans are required to glorify that unique consciousness at the expense of other attributes, such as economics and biology, and a certain constructive "tool-makingness"; were any transcendent cartesian (or platonic, etc) subject-ghost said to exist, he still requires certain goods, necessaries, economic resources, etc. Aristotle and Archimedes will do as well as pythagoras or Plato for roots philosophy. Contemplations of the Res cogitans, or the Idea as realized in rational History (Becoming--tastes great; Being--less filling) begin after some bratwurst and pils ja?
And the tradition of empiricism (including orthodox marxism, to a great extent) was about challenging the tradition of immaterial, anti-economic metaphysics. I do understand to some extent, Heidegger's impulse to challenge instrumentalism and mechanical determinism, yet there are other methods for taking on Babylon (and alternatives to marxism as well): indeed about half-way through MH's Question concerning Technology he seems to more or less give up---seeming to suggest that old anti-humanist sort of teleology---"this is the way Technik (another form of Dasein really isn't it) unfolds," with sinister hydroelectric plants across Der Rhine. I don't think we should agree with Herr H that the hydro plant is either so mysterious or sinister---it's a practical solution to energy problems, tho' the political-economic context of its construction might not be so appealing; or rather if it is sinister, than Dasein is as well----.
Posted by: Phlojo | Apr 7, 2007 11:40:00 AM
Another note on jargon and neo-logicism: scholars (even ones, like, not residing near Bawstun or New Yawk) whether in sciences, or philosophy need to have some familiarity with terminology and nomenclature (in fact, skill in nomenclature will often suffice to impress many dupes). Hegelian-marxist dogma itself depends on jargon. Heidegger's bizarre system (and one might recall what Nietzsche had to say about the systems of metaphysicians) goes quite beyond even the excessively ornate abstractions of Hegel. One can get some sense of dialectical Logos and historical "becoming" from Hegel (while taking great issue with his abstractions) without having to master an entire lexicon of vague concepts and strange psycho-ontological if not occultic terms.
The hidden occultic nature of Heidegger's project thus is itself anti-humanist and anti-empirical. Putting aside the absurd and brutal acts of "marxists" for a few nano-seconds, and taking a look at say the German Ideology, or Economic manuscripts, the more cogent sections of the cliffsnotes to Capital, one notes that Marx was not at all interested in metaphysical systematizing, theology, or gnostic or pseudo-occult speculations: all his points are about objects, events, states of affairs "out there" in economic and historical (and indeed biological) reality). Any "dialectical" considerations are really meant to deal with the problems of discussing subjective consciousness, but those problems, while signficant, are hardly the raison d'etre of Marx's economic critique, which is, as anyone who has ever bothered to read the Leviathan realizes, profoundly secular, economic, and social in nature, not metaphysical. It is only over the last few decades that Marx has been read as metaphysician --perhaps due to Althusser, various crypto-aesthetes--or freudianism (yet Freud was not pal of metaphysicians). Indeed Marx often appears nearly positivistic (he has no doubts of the reality of political-economic appearances, for one).
Posted by: Phlojo | Apr 7, 2007 12:48:55 PM
Some day some one will make a book (or coffee mug) out of Phlojo, and we'll all be shocked to actually confront his diatribes again, as if for the first time.
Posted by: | Apr 7, 2007 3:56:40 PM
Fundraiser anyone?
Posted by: | Apr 7, 2007 3:57:42 PM
Nice evasion, if not Annie Coulterish (and LS is, for all its supposed progressiveness about one step away from "Hermann Goering, reconsidered" (I wager Vati Heidegger did not detest the Reichmarshall either, at least until after '45, when he had to) . Let's put it this way, onnie: does orthodox Marxism (call it economic materialism, or dialectical materialism, or even empirical realism) have any resemblance whatsoever to the bizarre metaphysical system offered in Being and Time? (hint: nyet).
Posted by: Phlojo | Apr 7, 2007 4:04:18 PM
Put me down for one of those books, truly a commodity I would fetishize.
Another fundraiser would be for Long Sunday to sell the code for the Troll Generator, or to charge a fee per line of text - "Troll your friends' blogs, only a dime a word!"
Posted by: Nate | Apr 8, 2007 9:59:15 PM
Yes Natie you are such the bon vivant. 'Fore we get to Dasein, tho' or even Marky Marx, howze about you and the LS crew offer like 1000 words refuting the first 20 chapters of Leviathan or so..........
Posted by: Phlojo | Apr 9, 2007 12:17:37 PM
The problem, Phlodge, is that you violate the local norms for respectful conversation, so that no one cares about what you say. Kind of like shouting at strangers on the bus or putting your hand on their knee, it makes people tune out as the propositional content of your utterances.
I think it's a shame, because I for one am genuinely interested in some of the stuff that you know about, but I've got what you probably think are overly narrow standards of conversational manners as a precondition for seriously engaging with someone. I think that's generally the case w/ you with others who read this blog.
It's doubly a shame because I think you know all of this, which means you know this isn't a great use of your time. Speaking of worthwile uses of one's time, I'm going to stop now.
Posted by: Nate | Apr 13, 2007 1:46:54 AM
I would add that these aren't really just "local" norms...aphoristic taunts and gnomic jibes at one or another philosophical corpus that are too vague to be pinned down; never offering more than the shadow of a critique and then retreating behind another vague reference to another major philosopher; irrelevant comments that don't address the topic but demand a wholescale apology for the philosopher that has been mentioned.
Perhaps it was a bad idea to get involved in this, but just in case the individual doesn't know he's a troll and is just conversationally challenged, here is my diagnosis.
Posted by: CBR | Apr 13, 2007 10:19:43 AM
Au contraire. I simply asked for a working definition of Dasein, other than the vague reference to "Being," or Being which knows itself as Being etc. Let's put it this way: Heidegger seems to posit an a priori Res Cogitans-like mind-stuff (this is from Basic Writings, and some sections of Being and Time), but he doesn't even bother with the careful arguments of Descartes (which are I think undefensible, at least if Res Cog is read as ghost-like subject); also, the Dasein-thesis (and related issues, the thrownness, etc) is really not even refutable, and thus might be considered a type of dogma. There's no convincing proof that consciousness is transcendental or immaterial; additionally, I think Heidegger the anti-humanist (see Basic writings, and even his objections to Sartre (not that I approve of that marxist freak)) was interested in theology, or in buttressing theological claims, which are themselves not arguable in any sort of normal fashion.
In traditional Kantian terms (knowledge depends on perceivable phenomena) I do not think Dasein may be defended either: for one, is it synthetic or analytic? However outside the norm or perhaps un-subtle my comments were, I was pointing to what I think are the, as y'all say, onto-theological roots of Heidegger's system: you can't argue with supposed revelations or mystical insights; and those mystical or perhaps gnostic aspects of Heidegger (and german idealism really) are quite counterproductive in terms of preventing substantial political and economic discussion.
Posted by: Pozo | Apr 13, 2007 11:04:25 AM
The whole point of trolling is to express unqualified contempt. What is said is only said as a carrier, a vehicle, for the contempt. Maybe such-and-such troll thinks it's a good idea to include reference to some other thinker as a way to establish bona fides; other times they just say "Wanker!" This is reflected, too, in the way they write. They don't want to write the words they are using, because writing out words is a sign of respect for the discourse, and so they misspell and miswrite on purpose. One writes the word "I" when referring to oneself in a conversation; one replaces that with "ah" to show that actual words, correctly spelled, are reserved for real conversations. They often end up with the syntax and tone of a pirate:
"Ay, maty, yer crank's as warm as toast, but I'll nay task yer nazi-hidigger wot tie the shoo of Master Hobbes, I reck."
Posted by: Swifty | Apr 13, 2007 11:17:20 AM
Why not respond to my posts instead of caricaturing then Swifty? I am saying transcendental Dasein cannot be defended, if even disputed. Even Sartre thought it was anti-humanist; Carnap was a bit more on-topic when he claimed that the entire Heidegger system was comprised of meaningless propositions which could never be demonstrated to be true or false. Or are we not even allowed to object, like Padua 1300 or something? That is what much continental theorizing seems to suggest.
And in a very profound sense the economic materialism of a Hobbes should be contrasted against the massive pipe dreams of the continentalists--Dasein does sound rather sublime, perhaps to some chubby old Bavarian militarist with a pension and plenty of pils and bratwurst at hand. People need things, like food, housing, employment, mates, etc; that is first philosophy. Hobbes realizes that, as do Marx (and Nietzsche in a different form). Not sure if Heidegger does, or Kierkegaard does. When ghost replaces meat, some of us reach for our Darwin.
Posted by: Pozo | Apr 13, 2007 11:43:19 AM
Pozo writes:
Au contraire. I simply asked for a working definition of Dasein, other than the vague reference to "Being," or Being which knows itself as Being etc.
[end Pozo]
Yes, but this has already been provided. Here it is again:
In Section 4 of Being and Time I think Heidegger provides a pretty good definition.
Da-sein is a being that does not simply occur among other beings. Rather it is ontically distinguished by the fact that in its being this being is concerned about its very being.
Das Dasein ist ein Seiendes, das nicht nur unter anderem Seienden vorkommt. Es ist vielmehr dadurch ontisch ausgezeichnet, daß es diesem Seienden in seinem Sein um dieses Sein selbst geht.
[end quotation of already-provided material]
Dasein is a being that can be distinguished from other beings by the fact that it cares about its being. Dasein is care - ful.
First, that's a definition. Second, it is not tautological -- it doesn't just say 'being that knows itself as being'. Third, it is not obscure.
Here I am (let's say) in my apartment. It's been a few days since I watered my plant. I get up to refill my coffee and I notice the plant looking a little withered, a little dry. "Poor plant," I say to myself, "what's the matter with me that I can't take a darn moment to put some water in it?" And so I drag myself over there and give the stupid plant some water. Well, what just happened? I'll put Heidegger's approach up against Hobbes's any day. Do you know why? Because Hobbes' stupid epistemology is so restrained and restricted by his ludicrous political project ("let's give all power to one randomly chosen person who will be above the law!") that he is unable to handle or account for even the most common, everyday activities and experiences. Here's what he says in Ch. 11, paragraph 2, of Leviathan: "So that in the first place, I put for a general inclination of all mankind, a perpetual and restless desire of power after power, that ceaseth only in death." But Hobbes is wrong. It is immediately contradicted by even the faintest experience of human beings, where the "perpetual and restless desire of power after power" is restricted to a very small group. In fact, we can get at the kind of phenomenon Hobbes is talking about and the kind seen in the plant story, much better with Heidegger's comments on Dasein. Heidegger is much richer; he captures a much wider range of actual human "comportments."
Reference is made to the first twenty chapters of Hobbes' Leviathan. Here's what he says in Chapter IV; would that those who throw Hobbes in our face act accordingly.
"But the most noble and profitable invention of all other, was that of SPEECH, consisting of names or appellations, and their connexion; whereby men register their thoughts; recall them when they are past; and also declare them one to another for mutual utility and conversation; without which, there had been amongst men, neither commonwealth, nor society, nor contract, nor peace, no more than amongst lions, bears, and wolves."
Posted by: Swifty | Apr 13, 2007 12:11:31 PM
"also, the Dasein-thesis (and related issues, the thrownness, etc) is really not even refutable"
Well of course it's refutable. Why wouldn't it be refutable? Here's Marx saying the same thing:
"At each stage there is found a material result: a sum of productive forces, a historically created relation of individuals to nature and to one another, which is handed down to each generation from its predecessor; a master productive forces, capital funds and conditions, which, on the one hand, is indeed modified by the new generation, but also on the other prescribes for it its conditions of life and gives it a definite development, a special character. It shows that circumstances make men just as much as men make circumstances." German Ideology in The Marx-Engels Reader, 164-165.
"Men make their own history, but they do not make it just as they please; they do not make it under circumstances chosen by themselves, but under circumstances directly found, given and transmitted from the past." 18th Brumaire in The Marx-Engels Reader, 595.
What else is Marx talking about but being "thrown?" Marx's idea can be refuted; so can Heidegger's. Someone can say, "I don't think it's right that we're thrown or that we're determined by the conditions we happen to find ourselves in when we are born. I think that underestimates the initiative and creativity of individuals and groups way too much."
Posted by: Swifty | Apr 13, 2007 12:32:41 PM
"Why not respond to my posts instead of caricaturing then Swifty?"
It ill-becomees someone who writes this:
"No the problem is you're a marxist who doesn't know sheeit abot philosophy, even the shit you pretend to know: Heidegger is NOT down with marxism. You got that? Say troll to may face, byatch. I doubt you've read Kant's 1st critique, much less Nietzsche. You sound a hairdresser for the Cheka."
to complain about being caricatured, and to ask that such posts be taken seriously.
Posted by: Swifty | Apr 13, 2007 12:38:02 PM
Cool. Then following Hobbes' bare-bones nominalism, let's ask what Dasein denotes, names, designates. OR for that matter, what the following means: """Dasein is ontically distinguished by the fact that in its being this being is concerned about its very being.""
First, where is the Being? What are its space/time coordinates, Mass/bio-chemical properties? Hobbesian nominalism means one does not predicate about unseen or unprovable or merely speculative entities. Either some event or object is observable, perceivable, or its demonstrative knowledge, provable via axiom, etc. Dasein sounds like an existence claim (certainly not an axiom ala Euclid), thus subject to observation: Dasein exists (supposedly in time). OK, where? Or rather , how is it confirmed or proven? No a priori givens: that is what the empiricists taught (and the germans ignore for centuries).
Secondly, how does one establish "the supposed "concern" of Being with Being, even making the grand assumption that Dasein does exist (as say consciousness exists). Could the concern be quantified or even named via Hobbesian nominalism? Nicht. When does the concern kick in: at birth? Before? at 18? DO all people have it to some degree etc. That can hardly be established. That's Kierkegaardian spook jass, and anti-political. But of course to merely object to the clerics means one is a rustic, outsider, Trolll............
Posted by: Pozo | Apr 13, 2007 12:40:36 PM
"""Heidegger is NOT down with marxism."""
Oh a bit raw eh. I wager more than a few non-vichy frenchman who were aquainted with Herr Heidegger's thoughts may have thought in those terms when Heidegger's nazi pals were invading paris.
I am no Marxist, but marx was a materialist, remember. The conditioning is economic, historical, and biological. Not mystical. You seem to hold that marx's refusal to embrace a pure determinism implies he is some sort of idealist or metaphysician. He is not; and takes great issue with the idealists (even in Capital--read the intro for starters), and denies the a priori and immaterial "subject" that Heidegger takes for granted.
Posted by: Pozo | Apr 13, 2007 12:48:51 PM
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