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May 02, 2007

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CBR

I'm not sure why the existence of certain crises or limit situations where access to the question of being as Heidegger frames it is not possible leads to the conclusion that Heidegger's philosophy is out of touch with life as it is lived, or the real issue of being; this seems like a non-sequitor. Heidegger himself frames this problem when he talks about fear vs. angst.

I think part of the problem is a mistaken equation of ontic=unimportant or secondary. Most of the very most important things that confront us are ontic matters.

In the case of an immediately life-threatening situation, my horrorat a specific danger would merge with my angst about my being; these would become one in a certain sense. Heidegger thinks more ordinary situations are more fruitful for his analysis, not more important or more typical of our innermost humanity. So I'm not sure what the thrust of your Heidegger remarks is.

Swifty

Well I'm wondering why Heidegger thinks that, and wondering too about how the choice of examples skews the text, if any, and then just honestly wondering how Heidegger's thinking would impact the kind of scene Escobar describes, where danger to one's existence is present. But I join you in thinking Heidegger's thinking on being is not irrelevant to the kind of scene Escobar describes. If I gave the impression that I thought Heidegger thought life as lived was unimportant, I regret it. I actually don't think much of the claim that philosophy or Heidegger's version of it is 'irrelevant,' but I am struck at the number of times Heidegger addresses this attack. Adorno is also a regular commentator on this topic.

Malfeasancio

Heidegger and Adorno! Yes/ there's a pair. Kant and Nietzsche. Hitler Stalin.

like Nietzsche, Heidegger DETESTED f-n marxists and socialists: haven't you figured that out?

CBR

Yeah, those are valid questions. I think it actually does point to an important philosophical question about Being and Time, which is to what extent a hermeneutics of facticity disfigures the purity of ontological analysis, making SZ (to quote Nietzsche) an "impossible book." So on second thought, the choice of examples must be anything but innocent. This relates to the last thread--SZ fails because it cannot both be a transcendental ontology and a hermeneutics of facticity. Being must be historically determined, even in its horizons. So there must be certain practical assumptions informing the choice of examples, and more than examples, what Heidegger calls the "factical ideal."

Cornchops

This is an interesting combination, and I mostly agree with the comments made. I would add, I think in concord, that thinkers who undertake ontologies are not necessarily laying claim to all of being, such that a pointed example could disprove their 'hypothesis.' An ontology, like any work of writing or any thoughtful art will reflect the place from which it is written more than it will discover essential truths (it could discover contingent truths > ?). Maybe Heidegger was trying to achieve an awareness of that in his writing? And now I'll get petty: I find it funny when scholars try to "apply" an ontology to their special interests, hence the scores of essays on what Deleuze can teach us about nursing or why Badiou vindicates Global Warming or Heidegger and the telephone (Freud and Dinosaurs: see the pun?). Of course, if an ontology is at all rigorous, it might have something to say about most facets of life, but that does not mean that it deserves to be "applied" a la conjectures and refutations. What does one do with an ontology? Rude, I know. What's my point... maybe just appreciate the wierdness of Heidegger and don't expect so much from your ontologists.

Oh, and PJ: it was "primal scenes."

Cornchops

sorry, a clarification. I'm not suggesting you're trying to "apply" Heidegger to Iraq; I think your setup is really interesting (like I said), not an application but a, what, a tension, a montage. Mine was a comment about the uses and abuses of ontology that flowed more naturally from things I later edited out. Yeesh! Trying to keep it civil, as I know H-dog gets the angries.

Mowbray

The first line of the latter is "Why are there beings at all instead of nothing?"

Another bon mot demonstrating Heidegger's crypto-theologian-ness. And really to answer that requires a rather Kierkegaardian sort of dive, does it not? The point being (no pun intended) that any great causal Being is not substantially different than JHVH in his various manifestations: so is a nuke-equipped supercarrier (or perception thereof) a manifestation of Gott-Being? Not likely: the northern primates just have more effective clubs than the desert chimps have.

Joseph Kugelmass

At the moment that such an event takes place, there is, of course, not time to ponder the fundamental questions of metaphysics. However, that does not mean that the situation is not constructed from long before by metaphysical fields, including theology and doctrines of right and force.

We are probably all familiar with The Stranger, a novel where a very similar crisis -- an unplanned and unjust shooting -- proves uninterpretable until the question of Being is raised.

00100100

Shakespeare's in Hell. First noble Twooth

Tom

I remember the year before last chatting in London with the son of an Iraqi academic still living in Baghdad, and the son told me good-naturedly his father must be going senile or something because he kept asking him to bring back a couple of books, a blue one and a brown one, no title or anything. I suddenly had a thought and I suggested maybe he'd meant Wittgenstein and the son replied oh my God, maybe that was who he said. Even at that time I gather the father had been threatened at gunpoint more than once by a student keen not to fail his class. A random anecdote, but it maybe in such terrible circumstances abstraction and abstract philosophical questions can become a desperate need.

Tom

By the way, if cornchops is still around, he/she might find this worth a giggle.

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/bsc/jan/2002/00000040/00000001/art00005

I am a nurse, btw.

Swifty

A kind of Heideggerian psychoanalysis would not be too difficult to imagine -- especially since what else is Derrida up to. We're all familiar with stories of Iraq war veterans (and before them Vietnam War veterans, and before that "The Best Days of Our Lives") having a lot of difficulty resetting to the normal American level of being. Some reup because they can't imagine readjusting and are more comfortable back in Iraq. In fact, re-enlistment rates are probably one of the things keeping this tottering war effort moving forward. (Very high cash bonuses for re-enlistment also play a role.) Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome -- it's a kind of "culture shock," perhaps.

CBR

I thought reenlistment was low, hence the "stop-loss" policies.

There was a Heideggerian psychoanalysis movement, with one Medard Boss at the helm, apparently. He wrote a few books about it which I haven't read, but one can read Marty himself teaching the practicioners of "Daseinanalysis" in the Zollikon Seminars, and it's a fascinating book because in the 60s Heidegger is again talking in Being and Time-y terms.

Nadaland

that's right swifty-cheK; do your stalinism-lite. Heidegger the clown would most likely approve of the war, as he approves of locking up soi-disant leftists.................

Swifty

Hey CBR thanks for the Zollikon reference. I'm going to go check it out right now.

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